New Pool & Starting From Scratch!

[tnt69]

Our new pool arrives today (7/28) & will be installed next Tues (8/2). It is a 21x43 - 54" high Diamond Star AGP. It comes with 2hp/2spd pump & a Waterway2hp/2spd cartridge filter system. Also has auto chlorinator, covers (solar & winter), auto pool cleaner, maint. kit, & steps. I want to start right off with the BBB Method. We have NEVER owned a pool, so we would like to know what to start with & what to do leading up to installation & filling the pool. The site is prepped, but everything else; best test kits, do you test tap water with same kit or send it in, or could I get tap water tests from local Water Dept? How soon to add BB&B, etc. We would like to get this off on the right foot.
Naturally, all the pool places say to NOT use bleach, but 1 question, does the liner get bleached out from using bleach?

[aylad]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!!

Let me start with your last question...pool places will all tell you not to use bleach (which is 6% sodium hypochlorite). However, none seem to be able to tell me why you can't use bleach but can use their liquid pool chlorine (which is 12% sodium hypochlorite)!!! Of course you can use bleach, it is actually the most cost-effective form of chlorine for most folks. I have been using it in my pool for the last 8 years. It is possible to bleach out the liner by using bleach--if you splash it directly on the liner, for example, but if you're careful about pouring it, and stay within the guidelines for chlorine levels vs. CYA levels, you won't have any problem at all. AFter all, chlorine is chlorine is chlorine, once it gets in the water--so bleach is no more damaging to your liner than cal hypo, dichlor, or any other form of chlorine!

Let me encourage you, straight off the bat, to order a good test kit. We highly recommend the K-2006 or K-2006C kit, both available through the Amazon link in my sig. They are the same kit, but the C version has larger reagent quantities. If you go to the Amazon link and Amato industries is NOT the seller, then wait a day or so and they will restock. Some of the other companies are substituting a K-2005 kit, which is not the same thing. As long as you're not filling the pool with water from a well or that contains metals, then this kit will test anything that you'll need to test, and will keep you out of the pool store, where they will take advantage of unsuspecting people by selling you a bunch of stuff that you don't need.

I will tell you that you'll need some stabilizer in the pool. It's sold seperately, often labeled as balancer, conditioner, or stabilizer, but if you look at the ingredient, it will say cyanuric or isocyanuric acid. It's kind of like a "sunscreen" for your chlorine, keeping the sun from consuming it. It dissolves slowly, so you'll need to add chlorine (bleach) 2-3 times a day to make sure you always have at least 1 ppm of chlorine in the pool until the stabilizer dissolves.

Regarding the baking soda and borax (the other 2 B's), we really won't know if you'll need them until we know the levels of your fill water. So...I would take a sample of your fill water to a reputable pool store, one that uses drops, not strips with a computer, for their testing, and get a set of tests results, including chlorine, pH, alkalinity, hardness, and any possible metals. Resist the temptation to buy the list of stuff they'll try to sell you, no matter how insistent they are....just smile and tell them you already have some at home. No calcium, no algaecides, nothing except maybe some toys! ;)

If you'll come back, post those results here, we'll be able to tell you what else you need from there.

Congratulations on the new pool!!

[Watermom]

Janet has given you good advice to help you get started. Just a couple other things that may help you.

When you buy the stabilizer (CYA), you will need about 9 lbs. for your pool. That will give you a reading of about 40ppm of CYA which would be a good level. When your pool is filled and you get the pump running, add all 9 lbs. of it slowly to the skimmer (so it won't clog the pipes) while the pump is running. It is slow dissolving stuff, so you'll want to keep your pump running 24/7 for at least the first 4 or 5 days while it is dissolving in your filter. Also, don't backwash during that time period or else you'll just throw it out. (You shouldn't need to backwash a freshly filled pool the first week anyways.)

During that first week until the CYA dissolves, you'll lose your chlorine quickly to the sun so you'll need to test in the morning and in the evening. If you are home in afternoon, you can test then as well. Each time you test, add enough bleach to take your chlorine back up to around 5ppm. I estimate your volume to be approximately 28,700 gallons. (Pools are not filled to the height of their walls. The water level is usually about 4 inches lower than the top rail.)

For reference, in your pool, each quart of 6% bleach will add 0.5ppm of chlorine. You can use that to help you determine how much bleach you need to add to get back to 5ppm. After the first week when your CYA is registering (on that good test kit you're gonna buy!!) you'll be able to go to testing and dosing with bleach in the evenings only. With a CYA level of 40, you'll want to keep your chlorine between 3-6ppm ALL the time or you'll risk an algae bloom. (Take a look at the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below for more about the correlation between CYA and chlorine levels.) My recommendation is that when you get to the point where you are doing evening testing only, add enough bleach to take the cl to 6ppm. If you find that by the next evening when you test again that you have dipped below cl of 3ppm, then take it to 7ppm that evening instead.

BTW -- As you are filling the pool, you may want to drizzle some bleach in as ever foot or two of water is added. Just walk around the perimeter of the pool and slowly drizzle some in reaching as far from the sides as you can. Be careful not to splash it on you or the liner.

As Jan said, posts your testing results when you get them and somebody here will help you tweak them.

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

[tnt69]

We do not have a pool store within an hr drive of us, but I had the municipal water dept super run a test on our tap water. Here are his results:
Clorine - 2.1 total
PH - 8.7
Alkaline- 4 phenol, 90 total
Hardness -CAC03- 150
As far as metals, he says they constantly send samples to be tested for that & have never heard the numbers, so they must be very low. The water source is the Miss River. I have ordered the K-2006 kit, probably wont get it till late next week. Thanks for all your help!

[Watermom]

OK. In addition to buying bleach and stabilizer (CYA), you'll also need to buy some muriatic acid to lower the pH. You'll also need some baking soda. Go ahead and have everything on hand and when your pool is installed we'll help you get the chemistry right.

[tnt69]

Pool is being installed as we speak, starting with 3K gals (truck hauled) this pm & after that the old hose. We have purchased the bleach, stabilizer, muriatic acid, baking soda & borax & I will begin drizzling bleach in as we fill it up. We will also add the stabilizer as soon as we get it full enough to run the pump. Test kit will hopefully arrive tomorrow before it is all the way full.
We have some fairly steep banks within 2.5 - 3 feet on about 1/2 of the pool, under what will be decking. Is this a problem & will those spots need retaining walls?

[Watermom]

I am no builder so can't really comment on the retaining walls with any kind of expertise, but it kinda sounds like to me that you might need some. Maybe send some pics and let someone here take a look. You can send them to poolforum DOT pics AT gmail DOT com. Don't forget to reference the URL of this thread.

I bet you're getting pretty excited about the new pool!

[tnt69]

Yes, we are VERY excited. It was hard not to get in & play around in 18-20" of water this evening, but the installer said it wasnt a great idea until it is full. I sent some pics, not sure if they went to the right place tho.

[tnt69]

The pool is nearly full & will be able to turn on pump & filter early tomorrow morning (could have done it this evening, but had to go to work & will turn off water before full). We have purchased the bleach, borax, baking soda, stabilizer, muriatic acid & the test kit arrived today. You said when we turn on the pump to ....." add all the stabilizer slowly, TO the skimmer, so it wont clog the pipes, with the pump running."..... We are TOTAL NEWBIES, so do you mean add to the skimmer at water line or to the skimmer basket near the pump? Also, how do you add the other things...bleach (can it be poured in the chlorinator or is the chlorinator really not usefull anymore), the muriatic acid...etc? They are building the deck around the pool now, so we put the winter cover on while filling to keep junk out, so we have not been able to add beach as it filled, only 1 3qt bottle!

[aylad]

Addyour CYA to the skimmer at the water line--the idea is for it all to go through the pipes into your filter, where it will sit and dissolve. The alternative to that is to put it in an old sock and tie it up in front of your returns and let it dissolve there. You can give the sock a squeeze occasionally to help speed it up. When you add bleach, do NOT put it in the chlorinator, if there are or have ever been trichlor tabs in it--chlorine is chlorine once it gets into the water, but you don't want different forms of chlorine coming in contact with each other before they're completely dissolved in water. Watermom puts her bleach into the skimmer, I pour mine slowly into the return stream, being careful not to splash bleach on the sides or my clothes....either way works--although with trichlor in the feeder, I really think pouring it into the pool is the better way. Do not add muriatic acid into the skimmer--it's too acidic and will be bad for your motor to go through as concentrated as it will be. You want to pour the acid very slowly into the return stream, taking care not to splash on the pool, clothes, skin, eyes, etc, and do NOT breathe the fumes. It's nasty stuff, so just be careful with it. Wear gloves and eye protection while using it. Borax can be added through the skimmer if you ever have to raise your pH.

Janet

[Watermom]

And, baking soda can also go into the skimmer if you need to raise the alk. Again, slowly.

Post a current set of testing results when you try out your new kit!

[tnt69]

Thanks for all the great help!! So I guess the Chlorinator is pretty well obsolete with the BBB Method, would it be alright to simply bypass it (take it out completely) & skip an xtra hose & run directly back to the filter?

[aylad]

You could do that, or you could just let it stay empty and open the flow up all the way...

The inline chlorinators do have their uses, but the key is to know HOW to use it without getting yourself into trouble. They are great for adding a low amount of chlorine, consistently, or for use during vacations to ensure that chlorine is being added to the pool. When my CYA gets a little low, especially if the temp is hot like it is now (air temp 106 so far, and it's only 1:00--yesterday we got to 110), I'll turn mine on and set it at 2 (on 1-5 scale) so that it's constantly feeding a little chlorine into the water to supplement the bleach additions. And when people go on vacation, they can be a good way to prevent coming back to green water. It's just that they're not to be depended on for sole chlorination method. So...if you don't have a flow restriction problem with it, I'd just leave it connected and empty, turning the flow rate up, in case you need it again in future seasons.


Janet

[tnt69]

Great advice, never thought ahead to when we might be gone for a while. Getting used to using the Taylor test kit, alittle overwhelming to start, but after doin it a few times it is a snap. Are you in the desert west? How hot does your water get in those temps & do you try to cool it down & how?

[aylad]

I'm actually in the Northwest corner of Louisiana. This time of year my pool temp averages around 92-ish if left alone, but this summer has been much hotter and much more dry than usual-- as far as rain goes, we've only had a few sprinkles here and there, but it's been more than 2 months since the last real rain shower. So the air temps this last couple of weeks have been between 105-110, and yesterday was our 32nd day in a row over 100 degrees. Water temp 96, and that's with me running the hose in to top it off from city water for approximately 10 minutes every couple of days.

As far as cooling goes, I sometimes run my pump during the night instead of during the day with a fountain attached, and that has a small cooling effect, depending on the humidity level. The only really effective way to cool it, though, is just to run the water on the slide while the kids are in--which is basically refilling from tap water. It can substantially drop the temp of the pool over a 2 hour swim period.

Janet

[PoolDoc]

Finally posting pictures (trying to work out a better way to handle this in 2012)

Above-ground pool installation, with excavation issues:https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2qsQrA3hf4M/Ty2CQsJ-H2I/AAAAAAAAAa0/qywzXe4Xqdg/s800/100_0488.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q5PRg_H0UBk/Ty2CROLhF-I/AAAAAAAAAa4/M1v5nicCfBg/s800/100_0491.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mzGgyxW8P9Y/Ty2CQB805GI/AAAAAAAAAaw/Kmtznly1q00/s800/100_0487.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c8KlOWTg3kc/Ty2CSAW2IqI/AAAAAAAAAac/Kbcu8xdAwOc/s800/100_0493.jpg