Sudden cloudiness

[Barry J]

I went in the pool last night and it was perfect, I had a mask on and I could see from one end of the pool to the other, clear as day.
The filter was off during the night, we have been having 90 degree weather lately.
I got up this morning and the pool still looked great at 8am.
I started the filter, and mixed up some shock and algaeside and dumped it into the pool and then added a little "quick clear"..Just to stay ahead of the warmth and algae.
Then almost immediately the pool went cloudy...I went to work figureing it was from all the chemicals and that it would clear up in a couple of hours.
My wife called at 5pm and said the pool was still cloudy.
What could cause this???
I plan on running the filter all night tonight to see if it will clear, but could something be wrong with my filter??/ (sand filter) It has been running with no problem lately.
Or is it that I put to much chemicals in and it will take awhile, I put in half a scoop of chorine, probably 4-5 oz of the algaecide, 2 oz of "quick clear" and a little shock.
Any suggestions
thanks
Barry

[Watermom]

The only thing needed to stay ahead of the algae is adequate chlorine levels. What kind of algaecide was it? What is the ingredient of "quick clear" and the chlorine you added?

Post a full set of current water testing results taken with a drops-based kit. Tell us the type of pool and volume. Don't add any more "stuff" to the pool. Run the pump 24/7 and backwash if the pressure rises 5-10 psi over your clean filter pressure.

[Barry J]

Since, I wasn't going to be around for 3 days due to working 14 hours per day, I decided to take the proactive approach. I've had too many times that I didn't put chemicals in for three days and came back to green ring around the bottom of my pool. And add in the 90-105 degree temps these past days, I did not want to chance the algae build up.

"if not broke don't fix it"...that approach don't work well with pools, it called upkeep not trying to catch up with an algae problem.

I'm sure once I run the chemicals thru for a while it will clear up, like it has in the past...but thanks for your colorful comments and great suggestions

[Watermom]

Barry,
I don't think anyone gave "colorful comments." In fact, in post #2 above, I asked you for some information so that I could try and help you straighten this out. If you would like to give the requested information, we will be glad to help you with this.

Have you read any at our sister site www.poolsolutions.com? If not, you might take some time to do so. There is lots of good information there about basic pool maintenance that might be helpful for you. Also, read the BBB Method of Swimming Pool Care in my signature below.

Again, we will be happy to help you if you like.

[Barry J]

Watermom,
It appears to be clearing out, since running the filter over night, I think I just put too much chemicals in.
But here are the chemicals I use:
Quick Clear
From: Capo Industries LTD
1200 Corporate Dr.
Burlington, ON L7L 5R6
Canada


ACCU 50 Algaecide
From: Accucare Supply inc
95 Hathaway Center
Providence, RI 02907
Active ingredients:
n-Alkyl (60%C14, 30%C16, 5%C12, 5%C18)
dimethyl benzyl
ammonium chloride........................................49 .8%
n-Dialkyl (60%C14, 30%C16, 5%C12, 5%C18)
methyl benzyl
ammonium chloride......................................0.2%
INERT ingredients....................................... ..50%

SUPER SHOCK
From: Accu-Care Supply
109 King Philip Rd
East Providence, RI 02916
Active ingredients:
Sodium Hypochorite.....................12.5%
Inert Ingredients.............................87.5%

Thanks
Barry

[aylad]

The algaecide, being ammonia-based, will break down into several byproducts, ammonia included. The ammonia in itself can create a high chlorine demand, taking some of your useable chlorine away from its normal job of killing algae. That's why the only algaecide that we recommend here is polyquat 60, which is NOT ammonia based, and also works as a clarifier (same as your quick clear). Sounds to me like you had an algae bloom trying to happen. If so, the shock and algaecide that you added may have stopped it for now, but it won't for long.

If you could please post the test results that Watermom asked for above, it would help us help you to figure out what happened, and how to have it not happen again. :)

[waterbear]

Barry,
in the other forum you posted this problem in you said the only water testing you do is with your face-mask and nose. You said that if you can't see across the pool with the mask you dump in chemicals. I answered you in that other forum that we could not help you there. I also told you that mixing sodium hjypchlorite and a linear quat algaecide together was counter productive.

I don't think you will get much help here either unless you test your water.

I would strongly suggest going to the PoolSolutions (http://www.poolsolutions.com) website, reading everything on it, rereading it, then reading all the stickies in the forum, read them all again. and retiring the facemask and getting yourself a decent test kit and learn how to take care of your pool. If not you are going to be pretty much on your own.

[Barry J]

I will test my water.
Since, I have not tested in some time..being the fact that when i did bring my sample to the pool store, and they analyze it..they try to sell me $150 worth of chemicals.
What would be the best way to test it and not have to take out a loan???
thanks
Barry

[Watermom]

You should order a good test kit and that way you know your readings are right. We recommend the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C (same kit, bigger bottles). You can order it through the Amazon link in my signature below. If the seller listed is not Amato Industries, wait a day or so and try again when they restock. Some of the other sellers send the K-2005 instead. You don't want that one.

Pool stores usually test for free and you don't have to buy anything. Let them test it one last time so we can have a current CYA reading, but don't buy anything. Resist! They have already earned enough of your money. Post your readings.

Until your kit arrives, go to Walmart and get a cheap OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops) for around $5 I think. Use that to test chlorine and pH daily. The OTO does not replace the need for a good kit. You still need that.

Once we know the CYA level, we can suggest what chlorine levels you need for your pool.

[Barry J]

I went to Walmart and picked up a 6 way test kit.

Here are my results:
My pool is above ground oval 33x18 at 4ft.

When I did Total Chlorine/total bromine test the water was essentially clear, so I'm est. at <0.5ppm Chlorine
and <1ppm Bromine.

When I did Ph, I got either 7.2 or lower depending on when I held the tested against, against white paper was about 7.2, against the blue sky < 7.2

Total Alkalinity was 3 drops = 30ppm
Hardness indicator was 18 drops = 180ppm
And cyanuric acid test...well the water remained clear, and at no point was it "milky" so I could see the black dot at the bottom of the view tube with the full amount in.

So, how bad is it???
Thanks
Barry

[aylad]

It's not that "bad" really, but it's not surprising that you frequently have algae problems. Your sudden cloudinesss was almost certainly an algae bloom, which has been handled for now with the shock, but not for long since your chlorine is too low. With no stabilizer in the water, the sun depletes chlorine rapidly, making it hard to maintain a residual. I would add enough stabilizer to target 40 ppm, but you need to be maintaining 3-6ppm chlorine til it's in there, which can take a few days. This will take multiple daily chlorine additions. Your pH is ok at 7.2, hardness doesn't matter in a vinyl pool, and yoir TA needs to come up a bit, I'd target 60-80. You can use baking soda to raise alk.

Janet

[Barry J]

Should I shock again and how much??/ How much baking sode should I put in???? And is there a certain type of stabilzer to buy???
Also, i'm leaving on Saturday for one week, I have my dad coming every other day to chlorinate any suggestions??
Thank
Barry

[Watermom]

Since your chlorine dropped so low, I think you should shock your pool up to about 10. In your pool, every quart of 6% bleach will add a little under 1ppm of cl. So, I'd suggest adding about 2-1/2 gallons of bleach this evening. (Your volume is probably around 17,500 gallons.)

You'll need to test the water several times per day and each time, add enough bleach to get back to about 6. You don't want the chlorine to go lower than 3. Once you get some CYA in there, you'll be able to test and dose in the evenings only.

Go ahead and buy about 5 lbs. of stabilizer. Put it in an old sock and hang it in front of a return jet. Give it a squeeze once in awhile to help it dissolve faster. it will take a few days. Don't test the CYA level until at least a week after you add it so you don't waste your reagent. Any brand of stabilizer is fine as long as the ingredients are cyanuric or isocyanuric acid. If you can get it in there tomorrow, if you're lucky, it will have dissolved before you leave town.

Is your Dad going to test the water for you or only add bleach?

[Barry J]

Can't I use the shock instead of the bleach or is the bleach better, I've never put straight bleach in my pool before. So, just pick up regular bleach at the store.??
My dad does not usually add or test anything else accept the chlorine, I try to make it as easy as I can for him.
Thanks
Barry

[aylad]

The shock you have is sodium hypochlorite, 12.5 %. Regular ultra bleach is sodium hypochlorite, 6%. So yes, you can go ahead and use the "shock" that you have--it's the exact same thing as "straight bleach", only twice as strong.

Janet

[Barry J]

How much shock should I use?? Tonight

[aylad]

in 17,500 gallons of water, 1.5 gallons of 12.5% chlorine will add just over 10 ppm. I would start with that tonight, give it time to circulate, then test for chlorine after sundown. Test again in the morning before the sun hits the pool, and if you've lost any chlorine overnight, you need to maintain that shock level until you're no longer losing chlorine during the night when the sun is off the pool.

Janet

[Barry J]

It's the next morning , and here is what I did last night.
I put in one gal of shock , 4 lbs of stabilizer (3lbs in a sock hung in front of the return, and the rest thru the skimmer), and I also put in 6 lbs of baking soda.
I have not check on it yet, but will in ten minutes.
I ordinally do not run my filter all night, I hope I do not have to , to much longer, my electric bill is going to hurt this month.
Barry

[Barry J]

Just teted (5am)..chlorine is up to 3, and ph is still hovering around 7.0,maybe a little less.
Questions:
Should I put more baking soda in?
At what hours should I be running my filter(on normal days)?
How offer should I be putting in granular shock?
and last, how often should I be putting in stabilizer?
Thanks
Barry

[Watermom]

Go ahead and add about 6 more lbs. of baking soda. Maybe put in 3 lbs. and an hour or two later add the other 3 lbs.

Your pH is a little low. Get some 20 Mule Team Borax from Walmart (laundry aisle) and add a half a box slowly into the skimmer while the pump is running, breaking up any clumps. Wait a few hours and retest pH. Redose as needed to get pH to about 7.4-7.8. Once the pH starts to move, you'll probably want to add less than a half a box at a time.

Go ahead and add another 1/2 gallon of your 12.5% liquid chlorine. That should add about 3.5 more cl. In your size pool, each quart of 12.5% bleach will add about 1.8ppm of cl. Use that as a reference point. For the next couple of days, test at least morning and evening and each time, add enough bleach to get back to around 6ppm. Hopefully by Friday, your CYA will have dissolved and you'll be able to test and add chlorine in the evenings only. Every time you test, you'll add enough to get back to about 6. You don't want it to dip below 3.

You need to add the other lb. of CYA to the sock in front of the return jet. (4 lbs. is not enough.) Then, wait until you return from your trip before you retest the CYA level and then report it back here and we'll decide at that time if you need to add anymore CYA.

For the next 2 days, I'd suggest running the pump 24/7 until that CYA dissolves. After that, you can run it for 8-10 hours per day and that should be plenty. If you want, you can break it down into two 4 or 5 hour sessions. But, always make sure you run the pump at least an hour after adding things.

Repost new readings (except CYA) this evening. When are you leaving town?

[waterbear]

I ordinally do not run my filter all night, I hope I do not have to , to much longer, my electric bill is going to hurt this month.
Barry

THIS is why testing your water on a regular basis and keeping it balanced is so important. It saves a LOT of money in the long run.

[Barry J]

I just re-tested this AM, and got Cl at 5, and Ph at around 7.0....more baking soda???
I leaving tomorrow morning, I should be safe with my dad just adding granular chlorine for a week, correct??
Barry

[Watermom]

Baking soda is not used to raise pH, it is used to raise alk. What is your alk now? 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle at Walmart) is used to raise pH. Add a half a box slowly to the skimmer. Retest pH a couple hours later and add a little more if it is still below 7.6.

Did you add the rest of the CYA as advised?

[Barry J]

I added the CYA as advised last night.
In the medical field a ph of 7.45 or higher is called alkalosis, that is where I figured raising the Ph is raising the alk...I'll go test that now

Total alkalitiy is 80ppm..how much borax???

Oh yeah borax is for the ph......sorry I'm already in "vacation mode"...ok some how is my alk???? Do I need anymore baking soda???

[BigDave]

Your alk is good enough. If (after a while) you find you pH is moving too quickly, you may consider bumping up a little with baking soda.

[Watermom]

What is the ingredient in your granular chlorine. Cal-hypo or dichlor? What is your pH?

[Barry J]

49% Calcium Hypochlorite
My ph was 7.0

[waterbear]

if cal hypo and sodium hypochlorite are your main forms of chlorine than an ALK of 80 is perfect once you get the pH up with borax. It will minimize pH rise from outgassing of CO2 which will be the main cause of pH instability in your pool.

[Watermom]

You've got to get that pH up before you leave town. Get it to 7.6 or so. Add borax, wait 2 hours, retest, redose until you get it there. 7.0 is too low. If it drops any lower, the water will become acidic and can damage your pool. Take it up to around 7.6. No higher than 7.8.

[SalemCastles]

Since you haven't been measuring . . . .

================================================

In this post, DurhamHouses took some positions contrary to the 'standard' advice we give here. He might be right . . . but our policy has long been that if you want to contradict our standard advice, you may do so in the China Shop. There, you can argue it out to your heart's content.

And . . . if you prove your point, we'll change.

But, we do not do those debates in the middle of threads, where we're trying to help someone.

So . . . his thread, and subsequent replies have all been moved to this thread:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?13588
in the China Shop.

Sincerely,

Ben Powell

[Watermom]

I respectfully disagree. Raise it before you leave town or else have your dad do it.

[aylad]

I agree with Watermom. You risk doing damage to your pool if your pH get below 7.0. It won't take long, or much effort, to raise it.

Janet

[waterbear]

Since you have a vinyl pool Aylad and Watermom are right on the money...get the pH up now.
pH below 7.0 can and will damage vinyl liners.

I think a more important question is how did your pH and TA get as low as it did? Normally that is seen with the use of Trichlor, Dihlor, and or MPS (non chlorine shock) AND not monitoring TA and pH since these acidic chemicals deplete both but since you have no CYA in your water that indicates that you have not used either trichlor or dichlor since they both add CYA to the water and you indicated you shock with sodium hypochlrite (bleach). Do you add acid to your pool and if so do you do it without testing pH?

[aylad]

Our point exactly. But since the OP won't be there to correct his pH if it drops, it's safer to correct it before he leaves. There is obviously something driving his pH down, so there 's no guarantee it won't keep falling, possibly to the point where damage is done to his liner.

[Barry J]

This is the "OP", whatever that means.. My vaca was not ruined, i got back and with my dada maintainence , i tested the water , and my cl and ph levels were still good, tomorrow on my day off, I'll check all the levels again, thanks for all the help ....and entertainment from the last couple of posts.
My kids are happy to be back in their pool, where there are no sharks and jellyfish.
Thanks again
Barry

[aylad]

"original poster".

Glad you had a good vacation, and that there are no sharks and jellyfish in the pool!! ;) ;) ;)

Janet