HUD "Protected" Pool - Lots of Problems, please Help!

[Rocket Man]

I bought a new home that the builder defaulted on the loan and went into custody of HUD. It appears as though the pool was used one season one year ago (probably when they were trying to sell it) and then covered with the required HUD cover which is 2X6s covered with some fencing and some 2mil plastic (which disintegrated into a billion pieces). There were at least 200 frogs of several different species in the pool when I bought it.

The pool is a salt water in ground pool with a vinyl liner 20X40. It has a large sand filter. I am not sure how deep it is as the bottom is full of leaves and debris and the algae is well, nothing short of amazing.

So far in the last three days progress has been really dramatic.

- We disassembled the pool cover and hauled out all of the lumber and all particles of plastic that would fit in a net.

- I "shocked" the pool with pool shock + (the plus is a copper algicide) and there has been a massive die off of the algae.

- The chlorine either killed most of the frogs or drove them to the surface where they were snagged with the nets and relocated to a relocation camp in the creek down hill from the house.

Here are my problems (of which there are many)

- When disassembling the pool cover some of the fencing nails used to build the cover flew off and into the pool. This worries me due to the liner.

- There is rust all around the edge of the pool due to fence used to make the cover rusted into the concrete. How do I get rid of that? I have been using vinegar which is causing it to fade but it is still ugly.

- The algae is going through a major die off. Is vacuuming to waste the best way to get rid of it?

- The salinity is only 2300. This I understand is too low to generate chlorine, hence my use of the shock. I don't know how many gallons my pool is so I Don't know how much salt to add. Is there a good way to guesstimate? Should I add right away or wait till the algae and other stuff is under control?

- I also added 8 gallons of 6% bleach last night. Soon after I did that yellowish stain started appearing around the surface edge. Is that from the copper or the bleach? The bleach claimed to have no other additives but it was a little yellow when it came out which I thought was a little odd.

- Nearly all of the floating debris has been fished out. Other than the algae the water appears to be clearing up. Should I keep blasting it with chlorine and vacuuming up the remains?

- I am thinking there can not possibly be any stabilizer in the pool right now due to the major algae blooms. Should I add now or just wait till the algae is mostly gone?

- The pressure gauge for the sand filter appears broken. I did not notice that until after using it for a day or two. Could I have done other damage to the system by operating it with a broken gauge earlier? If so what?

- Most of the frogs are gone for good but some seem to be cropping up again (the very large, possibly tasty ones). Is there a way to keep them out? I could just kill them all but I think with the creek being located so close (150 feet) they will keep coming back.

[Watermom]

Hi Rocket Man and welcome to the Pool Forum!

I'll take a stab at some of this and then others will also chime in -- especially about the SWCG which is not my area of expertise at all.

I guessed your volume to be around 24K gallons, assuming an average depth of 4 ft.

Keep shocking the pool. Just use bleach for now. If I'm close in regards to the volume, each gallon will add 2.5ppm. I'd say you are right that you most likely have no CYA, so for now, aim for shock levels around 10-12. Hit it hard with bleach. Test as many times a day as you can and each time, add enough bleach to get back to 12ppm or so. (BTW -- bleach is pale yellow and not clear.) Don't add any CYA just yet and do NOT use any more products with copper in them! Contrary to popular belief, it is not chlorine that stains things (including blonde hair), it is copper!

Do have a test kit? If not, you will need one. The one we recommend is the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C (same kit, larger bottle of some reagents). If you buy it through the Amazon link in my signature, the Pool Forum makes a little money on the sale which helps us keep this form online. Only buy if the seller is Amato Industries, however. Some other sellers are substituting the K-2005 which you do NOT want. If Amato isn't listed, wait a day or two and try again. They seem to restock pretty quickly when they sell out.

In the meantime, pick up a cheap OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops) and use that. It will only read to 5 (or maybe 3) but you can force it to go higher with a dilution method described here: Testing Without a Good Kit (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/how-to-test-your-pool-without-a-good-testkit.html )

You do need a gauge. They are cheap. Pick one up and put it on there with some teflon tape. Operating without it for a couple of days would not have hurt anything, but you need one. It is how you will know when it is time to backwash your filter and right now with all the junk in the water, I'd say that is pretty often. Do you know how to backwash a sand filter?

If you think there may be nails in there, I wouldn't vacuum just yet until you can see better where they are or I think you may puncture your liner. Run your pump 24/7. When you put the new gauge on (ASAP), go ahead and backwash (let us know if you need directions for how to do so) and then note the pressure afterwards. Whenever you see a 5-10psi increase over this clean filter pressure, you'll know it is time to backwash again.

To sum up --- get a OTO kit and lots of bleach. I'd also pick up several boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle at Walmart). Order the good kit as soon as you can. Buy a filter gauge. Sustain the high cl and run the pump 24/7. Post your pH reading when you get it. Come back when you have more questions and keep us posted how it is going.

BTW -- when you post, your post has to go through a moderation queue before it appears on the forum. That is why you first post didn't show up immediately. I deleted your other post.

Hope this helps some.

[Rocket Man]

Thanks for deleting the other post and replying to this one. I have a cheap test kit right now but will likely order a better one soon. The computer on the pool seems to be able to detect salinity and other things but I don't know how to use it yet (and it came without the manual). The tester goes bright yellow well off the scale after adding.

I will replace the gauge on Monday I think. I have been back washing every few hours as the water is so nasty I figure it can't hurt to keep the filter clean. I wonder if it is safe to run all night with the water so dirty? I don't want to burn out my pumps or cause a leak.

The average depth of my pool appears to be more like 5-6 feet based on the soundings with the pole. The shallow end is close to three feet and the deep end is around ten with some moderate sloping. That should make it more like 30K based on your formula.

Something disturbing today. While scrubbing for algae some silver sided duct tape came up as well.... I sure hope they were not using it to patch a leak in the bottom!

PH reading is up and down from 6.4 to 7.6. Appears to jump when I add more CL.

[Poconos]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
While running without a gauge be sure to check the flow often. Running without flow can damage or destroy the pump. If the flow stops all the motors energy goes into heating the water in the pump chamber and if it gets hot enough you'll ruin the pump. So, running overnight is a risk at the moment until you get a better feel as to how much the filter is plugging. As for the duct tape, it doesn't stick under water so it's probably just trash that found its way into the pool. Until you get your test kit you can dilute the sample to get in in range of your present kit. Use distilled water and if you dilute equal amounts sample and distilled, double the reading. 2:1 triple etc. Good enough for what you need now. You may also want to measure your water level between backwashes to see if something is leaking. Use a plain ruler to measure the depth to a known spot like a specific point on your steps. With calm water you should be able to get accuracy to 1/16 inch. See if there is any drop between backwashes. You'll get some due to evaporation but probably not much if the relative humidity is high.
Al

[PoolDoc]

Just a couple of quick notes:

#1 - Your pH reading is more likely to be correct when the chlorine is low, than when it is high.
#2 - Your best best for removing (more likely: lightening) rust stains on the deck is Iron Out, but do NOT put this in your pool.
#3 - Yellow (orangish!) stains that appear AFTER adding chlorine can be iron -- chlorine tends to precipitate iron. In your case, this may mean you've got more than 1 or 2 bits of iron or steel in the pool.
#4 - Vacuming to waste is the best way to get rid of sludge, so long as you don't P.O. your neighbor!
#5 - You may want to add some liquid metal control agent BEFORE you raise the pH. Otherwise, you may have a bunch of copper and iron stains.

[Rocket Man]

I am certain there is iron in the pool I just don't know how much. The fence they used for a pool cover was badly oxidized and was over the entire top of the pool. Throw a few galvanized fence staples in there as well.

The algae does not seem to be dying fast enough. I had two days of progress and then everything stopped despite insanely high level of chlorine (14+) as near as I can tell. It does die slowly but I can not vacuum the deep end due to all the debris at the bottom of the pool, and I can't see the debris to remove it. The shallow end is easy enough, although I had to buy an extra long hose to reach the shallow end.

Not worried about the neighbors, the closest one to the pool is about 1/4 mile away. :)

PH is holding steady at around 7.2. It does not seem to have changed any in the last few days. How do I know I have a correct reading with a high chlorine level?

Wish there was a better way to get rid of the dead algae.

[PoolDoc]

How do I know I have a correct reading with a high chlorine level?

Buy some steam distilled* water at the grocery store. Mix your pool water with distilled water 1:2 (1/4 cup pool water + 1/2 distilled water). Test both pH and chlorine levels in the mix. Multiply your chlorine reading by 3; take the pH reading as is.

* MUST be distilled water, not spring or 'bottled' water!


+ Do NOT raise the pH above 7.0 - 7.2 till you are sure the metals are gone
+ Be SURE to add the metal magic type products mentioned earlier -- Jacks Magic Pink Stuff, if you can get it.
+ Brush (stir up!) the bottom of the pool as much as you can -- this will kill algae and lower chlorine)
+ Buy and use an overdose of polyquat (www.poolsolutions.com/gd/polyquat.html) once the chlorine level drops.
+ Tell us what you HAVE (and HAVEN'T) done, so I / we don't have to keep reminding you.

[Rocket Man]

Pretty much everything in this thread is what I have done and not done. I bought quite a bit of salt but have no plans to put it in until we are done getting the algae out of there. Going to put the new pressure gauge on tomorrow. Chlorine level still super high. I guess while I am out getting the gauge I will get the metal treatment as well.

I have only been brushing the pool twice a day. I guess I can put my sons to work brushing it more often.

[PoolDoc]

I'm surprised at the high chlorine level, when algae still remains. Have you added more chlorine? Have you tested pH with distilled water? What does the pool water look like (color / clarity)

[vinper]

Why wouldn't you just drain and power wash and start over with new water?

[PoolDoc]

Draining a vinyl liner pool like his often destroys the liner.

[Rocket Man]

We now have some modicum of success. I had to go out of town for the weekend and knowing I would not be there to backwash the filter I shut it down and did not add any more CL. When I returned today (60 hours later) the pool had about six feet of visibility (and blurry to the bottom of the deep end about 10') and a massive die off of algae in the bottom. This made me note a number of wrinkles in the liner in the shallow end. Most of the wrinkles extended from the corners making me think that the pool had likely been drained fairly low. In the good news arena the pool volume dropped almost zero while we were gone and since there was no rain that means there is most likely no leaks.

CL registered zero and the PH was still around 7.2. We vacuumed most of the algae to waste, pulled several of the fencing staples out of the bottom of the pool and dumped some more CL in the pool.

As we got into the deep end this stirred up a lot of debris and repeatedly clogged the filter (pre-filter really) clouding up the water quite a lot.

I am thinking that this means we are getting close at last. Some questions remain:

- What is the best way to add salt? Is there any kind switchover procedures?

- Is it possible to fix the wrinkles? If not is this a problem? I don't care so much about the aesthetics. I won't buy a new liner if it is not otherwise a problem.

- The plastic stairs that meet the pool deck have no grout or caulk around them. It seems to me they should to keep water from getting in behind the steps. Should I caulk/ grout it?

- Should I add stabilizer? There is none in the pool right now.