HELP with Green/Brown Water

[poolrookie]

Filled intex 16'x32'x52" pool with creek water,14,500 gallons. In Eastern ky, couldn't have it brought in and to far away for city water. Have a well,but couldn't use it to fill pool. Of course after getting water in, shocked before bed, brown the next morning. Took to pool "PRO", he said he could sell me a lot of chemicals but just to add 10lbs of iron out and it will clear up immediately. So we added it, and in 5 minutes it was pretty Caribbean Blue water, with a little cloudy to it, couldn't believe it. Had to fix chlorine level and ph level, but after 2 days all readings were perfect, but still cloudy. Went on Vacation for a week, parents tried to fix while i was gone...hahaha.. they added clarifier and blue sheen or something, didn't work, when i returned home it was a dark green again. Added 1 32 oz bottle of metal out. Vacuumed several times, let paper filter run, clean/changed filter, for a week...Now back to "PRO", said i need sand filter. So 2 days ago, got a 1hp 16" sand filter, been running for 2 days now. I can see the 3rd step on the ladder but the last one is another story. i've brushed and mixed it up hoping the sand filter would clear it up. I added another bottle of "metal out" last night. Had water tested, here are results, using Walmart/Lowes chemicals, baking soda and 3" chlorine tabs.
free chlorine 7.0
TC 7.0
ph 7.4
Hardness 330ppm
Alk 100 (it was 17, but added 12 lbs of baking soda to raise it)
CA 10
copper .25 ppm
IRON .42
i NEED SOME HELP, MY BOY WANTS TO DIVE FOR THINGS AND HE CAN'T SEE THEM TO DIVE FOR THEM... :) We have been swimming, but it's hard to invite people over to a green pool!

i have read a lot of your posts about needing more metal out so i ordered some last night, it should be here monday hopefully..i hope that is what i need to do... more metal out with high chlorine level, low ph, let new sand filter run....

[aylad]

Hi, and welcome!!

The brown that formed after the initial chlorine shock was metal that precipitated out. By adding the metal out, it re-suspended the metals into the water, which is why it cleared so quickly. However, now you're dealing with a situation where you not only have metals but also have algae, so just adding the metal out isn't going to fix the problem--you also are going to need to shock the pool. I'm assuming your CYA level is 10, although I'm not sure how you got that number, since the drop-based tests don't distinguish levels less than 30 ppm, so you're going to need to shock the pool to 12 ppm and hold it there, filtering 24/7, in order to clear the pool. However, having chlorine that high will also cause the metals to drop out again, so as you raise your chlorine level, you're going to need to add metal out as needed to keep the water from turning brown. It will probably help if you can add your chlorine into or very close to the skimmer, so that if the metals do drop out, they'll drop onto your filter instead of into the pool.

Hope this helps

[poolrookie]

Thanks for the reply, i think why the water cleared so quickly was the 10lbs of iron out, because all i did before that is shock it... i didn't add any metal stuff until i returned back from vacation and the water was back to dark green. I did have the water computer tested, that is where i came up with all the number.. my dad now tells me that while we were gone they tried something called, "Green to Blue" i guess it supposed to turn pitiful green water to pretty blue.. he put it in and let it run for 4 hours or so then turned the pool off and let it sit over night, pool is clear when we do that and all the brown is on the bottom until he tried to vacuum it up and then it just mixed the dust up and got all cloudy and green again. I guess that must be some kind of floc or something... So now that we have a sand filter, should i turn it off, it's only been running for 48 hours now and it's still light green... or will it be better to keep it running and let the filter work or try and vacuum it out in the morning? i have done both in the last week, but just don't know what to do next?? So you think ihave algae now??? how is that possible with shocking the pool so much, i know before i left on vacation i shocked it like 5 times, before i went with the iron out?? then took a reading and it was so high up the charts i thought there was no way to have any algae at all...it was dark red on the chlorine reading.. i have put 4 or so ounces of algaecide in yesterday and a couple of days ago and some a few days before that also... should i add anything else to the water???? metal free?? or just let the filter work for another day or so and check it out or shut it down and try to vacuum in the morning??? this has been so aggrevating... The chlorine is already high, because i shocked it this morning again, and i just went out and put 2 trichlor tabs in the skimmer just before the sand filter to maybe help get some iron out.... WHAT ELSE TO DO, JUST WAIT???

[poolrookie]

Hi, and welcome!!

However, now you're dealing with a situation where you not only have metals but also have algae, so just adding the metal out isn't going to fix the problem--you also are going to need to shock the pool. Hope this helps

If you still think i have algae, i noticed how the Bleach worked on the poolsolutions guide under your name above....would that be something i should try...i have tried everything else, but have pretty high chlorine levels right now, how much bleach should i add if this is something i should do?? just trying to find something that will work, thanks in advance..

[poolrookie]

Just found this stuff from your forum: CuLator Metal Remover.... does this work better than metal out?? want to find something, this is killing me??

[poolrookie]

vacuumed and backwashed this morning, still green! 2 bags of aqua shock, chlorine is probably through the roof...will be taking it computer checked in a couple hours, will post new numbers to see what i need to do, i have to be missing something.. should have a green pool with all the shock and trichlor that is in this thing..but what do i know???

[Watermom]

You need a good test kit so you can test for yourself and not relying on a pool store. The one we recommend is the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C (same kit, larger bottle of some reagents). If you buy it through the Amazon link in my signature, the Pool Forum makes a little money on the sale which helps us keep this form online. Only buy if the seller is Amato Industries, however. Some other sellers are substituting the K-2005 which you do NOT want. If Amato isn't listed, wait a day or two and try again. They seem to restock pretty quickly when they sell out.

But, in the meantime, go to Walmart and pick up an OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops) and use it until you can order a good kit. Hopefully you can find one that reads chlorine levels up to 5ppm but some only go the 3. Either way won't be high enough but you can force it to go higher by using a dilution method described here: Testing Without a Good Kit (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/how-to-test-your-pool-without-a-good-testkit.html )

While at Walmart get a jug of distilled water and more bleach.

Post with some current numbers and somebody here can help you go from there.

Regarding the Culator --- the jury's still out on that. A few members are trying it but no definite conclusions yet.

[poolrookie]

I will have to get a better kit, i just have cl and ph one right now... had results from computer test:
Free Chlorine 4.8 (this is after trichlor tabs in skimmer all night, and shocking with 2 bags of aquachem shock this morning)
TC 4.8
ph 7.3 At least i got this right and it stays their.. :)
hardness 390
Alk 27 it was 10 last week and i added 12 lbs of arm/hammer, probably need 12 more lbs
CyA 10 Hasn't moved from last week, with all the trichlor i'm surprised....
COPPER .42 WENT UP FROM .25 LAST WEEK, MAYBE FROM THE 3% IN THE ALGAECIDE???
Iron .43 Still high (will this still show even if it is sequestored??) just wondering??? i have more metal out but don't know if i should put it in????

i have 3 gallons of bleach and don't know if i should use it or metal out first or both??? HELP!!!!! Ugly green water is horrible......

[PoolDoc]

Hi Poolrookie;

You've got more questions than we've got good answers. Once you've treated a pool with all that goop from your pool store, it becomes very hard to predict what will happen next.

What's worse, you are in the worst of all possible pool worlds: you have both algae (which needs chlorine) and metals (which will stain if you add as much chlorine as you need) AND you've got poolstore goop in your pool, which essentially means that all the rules about what will happen next evaporate, because we can't predict how the goop will affect things.

Anything I, or anyone else here, tells you to do will be a guess at best. It might be a good guess, but that's all. For example, your last question, about 'bleach or metal out', I can't answer. And if you do both, well bleach tends to break metal out (if it's HEDP) down.

So here's what I think:
+ It's good you've got the sand filter; that will help.
+ You're getting a good test kit; that will be essential.
+ You have 'free' water, so dumping and draining won't cost anything.
+ If you'd started the pool the right way, you'd probably be all clear now.
+ But if you keep working with what you got, you may not get it clear before school starts back!

So, (you can probably see where I'm going with this!) do this;

+ Use the pool as best you can, now.
+ Add some more algaecide, till the pool looks like a suds bath -- it will eventually kill the algae and it won't make the iron worse.
+ Use the trichlor, but not the bleach
AND
+ Order your kit
+ Send me the EXACT name and brand of the "metal out", and any other chemicals you have.
+ Purchase or order 2 quarts of polyquat and 2 quarts of HEDP, if you don't already have those
+ Purchase 5# of stabilizer for your pool
+ Test your creek water, once your kit arrives, and give use the results.
+ Have your creek water tested at your pool store, and give us the iron results.
+ Get other chemicals (acid, borax, washing soda) once we've seen the fill water results.


THEN, drain and refill your pool.

+ Do NOT add bleach while refilling.
+ Instead, add a full dose of polyquat -- 1/4 quart as soon as you start filling -- to control algae and help filter out goo, including iron
+ Fill THROUGH your circulation system, if at all possible, by putting the fill hose in your skimmer and starting the pump.
+ Add stabilizer via a sock (you'll be cleaning your filter too much to add it via the filter).

You'll also need to:
+ Add HEDP (metal out, maybe, depending on brand) based on test results.
+ Once you have the circulation system going, add a trichlor tab
+ Gradually raise pH
but how and when will depend on fill and test results.

My guess would be -- and I'll be able to tell more once you tested your fill water -- that you can be clear and blue in just a few days -- with minimal added expense.

[poolrookie]

thanks! Will probably do the best we can for another month or so and then close it up anyways....will restart from scratch next march or april....will have all the stuff to get ready for the iron and copper in the water next year definitely! will get water tested from creek, soon...will order kit too!

[PoolDoc]

Good luck!

I didn't realize it was usable now. If it is, focus on nightly doses of bleach to maintain a sanitized pool, even if there's no chlorine during the day.

[poolrookie]

Oh it is usable, just ugly green! with heat index its going to be over a 100 the rest of the week!!! i did add the 3 gallons of bleach and a bottle of algaecide from walmart, 3% copper in it tonight.... i will have a bottle of "metal free" is its exact name tomorrow from "in the swim" 32 oz bottle...

the ph has been staying perfect and the chlorine has been from 4 to 7, it's never been 0, except for when we put all the iron out in it at first 3 wks ago..but since then it's been over 4..... copper and iron are still .4 are you sure it's "Algae"??? i know copper causes green water too... we have shocked every couple days after the iron out incident, and the chlorine has always been in and filter has never been shut off, except for the one night dad tried the green to blue stuff that supposed to of soaked to the bottom then vacuumed up.. since then it's been running 24/7 with trichlor in floater and in skimmer... Just wondering is their just to many metals that haven't be sequestored very well yet... the first metal stuff i used was from walmart, then a metal out from ebay, but i think the one i have coming tomorrow is pretty good brand...from "in the swim" what do you think???

[poolrookie]

I was looking for polyquat on amazon to, and it brought up "algaecide 60 plus" from INTHESWIM, says good for well water and it doesn't effect the ph, is that good stuff? i like buying from them, free shipping and usually one day delivery. Man those Taylor kits are expensive, but sure they will pay for theirselves since it tells what all is going on with the chemicals...

[CarlD]

The amount of chemicals and aggravation the Taylor K-2006 saves you in one season easily pays for it. Polyquat's good stuff, but what it WILL do is lower your chlorine level. Adding 1/4 bottle will send your FC level to 0 within 48 hours, but don't panic! It's OK. It also helps clear out fine particles that otherwise pass through the filter.

But the more stuff you throw in the harder it is to help you clear it up. Now you have copper in there on top of the iron, and whatever the "green to blue stuff" is. And unless your metal removers are all HEDP, regardless of brand, who knows what will work? It's not the brand that matters, it's what in it.

Frankly, it doesn't look to me like you are paying attention to Ben's advice, just buying stuff by brand rather than ingredients and throwing it in. Your best hope to keep it swimmable is keep the chlorine up and the pH in 7.2-7.9 so it's sanitary, even if ugly.

Carl

[PoolDoc]

@CarlD: Carl, poolrookie had already gotten a bunch of that stuff before he began asking questions here. I suggested a drain and refill, if the pool wasn't usable. But it is usable, and it's hot. So, he's doing pretty much what I would in his shoes.


I was looking for polyquat on amazon to, and it brought up "algaecide 60 plus" from INTHESWIM, says good for well water and it doesn't effect the ph, is that good stuff? i like buying from them, free shipping and usually one day delivery.

I checked -- as of right now (summer 2011) that product is still polyquat.

[poolrookie]

After putting in 12 lbs of alk incr. yesterday at 6pm, and then before bed at 11 i put in the 3 gal of clorox bleach and a dose of algaecide.... my readings this morning at 11 am are:
chlorine is dark red, so probably close to 10 if not over....didn't lose any over night...
ph is about 8.2+ prob because of alk incr right?

pool is a lighter green this morning and can now see the bottom step on ladder and kinda make out the white lines on the bottom barely when the sun is shining.. LOL

so chlorine level is way up and staying... i need to reduce ph with some ph down so it's swimmable...i have some on hand already, but will start going the BBB route when i run out of the expensive stuff!

Since it's lighter green does that mean the bleach was what i needed?? someone recommended 6 gallons and i only put in 3, would 3 more do better???? just hate to get that chlorine level that high, but as long as it's safe i would do it to get clearer water..

[poolrookie]

Results of water test at 3pm:
Chlorine still way over 10
Ph came down to 7.6, will wait little while longer and test before bed to see if it comes down a little more before i add a little more ph down..

supposed to be over 100 tomorrow, have to be able to swim!!!!

[poolrookie]

11pm update:
chlorine still over 10
ph down to 7.4

Pool looks a little lighter green today after the 3 gallons of bleach last night...haven't added anything today, just vacuumed this morning, backwashed, brushed to mix water up!

Just want to make sure that a high chlorine level as long as ph is fine is okay for my 5 year old to swim in?? really supposed to be hot the next 3 days and will definitely need it...
Anyone got any more guesses about what is needed other than maybe more bleach and filtering to get my light green water clear water, closer to pretty blue clear water?? :)

[PoolDoc]

11pm update:
chlorine still over 10

Just want to make sure that a high chlorine level as long as ph is fine is okay for my 5 year old to swim in??

Safe, yes.

Comfortable and non-irritating?

I'm not sure. You haven't ever reported your stabilizer level. If the CYA=0ppm, 10ppm FC could be pretty irritating to skin and eyes. If CYA>30ppm it should be fine. Read the "Best Guess" page linked in my signature.



Anyone got any more guesses about what is needed other than maybe more bleach and filtering to get my light green water clear water, closer to pretty blue clear water?? :)

You need to stop asking this question. In the pool biz, that question is heard as, "Sell me something more!" If you ask it at the pool store, they will LOAD YOU UP with expensive and mostly useless chemicals.

The product you need is one we've called P.O.P., but you already have it available and won't have to go buy it. You just have to decide to use it.

(P.O.P. = Pool Owner Patience)

[poolrookie]

Thanks for all the info Poodoc, CYA level is 10, so chlorine might be irratating! Will check it this morning, as hot as it supposed to be it should start coming down, that will help! I understand about what what else should i do question. Patience is definitely not one of my strong suits! :) But will try... Will get some stabilizer though and hang it in skimmer.

[PoolDoc]

CYA level is 10, so chlorine might be irritating!

If it's really 10, it will probably be OK. But I don't know how you'd know that: no testkits measure that low.

[poolrookie]

I guess i meant my CYA is 10 and my Alkalinity (says with stabilizer correction is 27) This is from my print out from the water test i received tuesday evening. Chlorine still above 10 this morning, that means it's been that way for almost 48 hours. ph is still reading a little high, but that could be do to the chlorine high levels right? Should have a good kit by tomorrow hopefully! will help tremendously.

[poolrookie]

Had a good time in the pool today, about 100 degreens. Lighter shade of green, still can just barely see the bottom step of the ladder. Chlorine level still 10+ and PH is 7.6
Put stabilizer in sock in skimmer to start bringing it up some. Hoping another couple of days it will start getting more towards blue than green! :)

[PoolDoc]

I'm still skeptical about that CYA reading -- with a CYA of 10 ppm, chlorine added in the AM would be gone in the PM if it was a sunny day. But, I'm not sure I've followed the sequence of your chlorine additions.

[poolrookie]

I'm still skeptical about that CYA reading -- with a CYA of 10 ppm, chlorine added in the AM would be gone in the PM if it was a sunny day. But, I'm not sure I've followed the sequence of your chlorine additions.

Have had trichlor tabs in skimmer for the last 3 days and one in the floater. Added 3 gallons of bleach 2 days ago, chlorine went way up and has stayed that way for 3 days now. Still 10+. Nice rainy day today, i'm sure that should help..hahaha...

[poolrookie]

my water's chlorine is still around 10, but it is clear and light green! I seen on another thread, that you guys said you could get it clear if they could get it to the clear and green stage for about 100 bucks in chemicals and following instructions. What would i need, would love to try? we have until usually september to swim, so if their is a chance with all that happened, to still have clear BLUE water, i can try!!

[PoolDoc]

In YOUR case, you just need to hold your chlorine levels, and keep filtering. You will probably get there, but it will take P.O.P.

And you need a K2006 or 2006C so you can find out what's actually happening in your pool.

[poolrookie]

Thanks, will let it run and backwash and vacuum in the morning! Kit is on the way, hopefully tomorrow, unless it's fedex, they never deliver on time. :)

[poolrookie]

Got up to blue water this morning, patience is a wonderful thing! Had some brown stuff on a couple spots on the ground (dust/silt/or whatever it is) try to vacuum these spots and it came right back through the sand filter, i thought the sand was supposed to collect this stuff....that is ridiculous...so all it did was mix it up and the pools pretty blue cloudy water, back to more of that dirty color... i guess blue and dirt make very light green...

should i vacuum this stuff out to waste?? after it settles again.. i would lose so much water though and have to add more of creek or well water, probably not a good thing.. hope my kit comes today so i can test the creek water to know if we can add it safely...

[PoolDoc]

Once you get your kit, check the pool water and the creek water.

But, what may work well for you is to add creek water SLOWLY via the skimmer, but with a couple of chlorine tabs in the skimmer. The combination of chlorine plus filtering may filter out most of the metals before it makes it to your pool.

[johnlanciloti]

ive been watching your thread close. Im having the same issue. no algae at all that has attached to the liner, numbers r all good, tried multiple products. waters still green! oh yeah i work at fed ex! lol.............and if its not getting there on time i can tell you its problably not because the driver is lazy they just expect the drivers to accomplish the impossible!

[poolrookie]

ive been watching your thread close. Im having the same issue. no algae at all that has attached to the liner, numbers r all good, tried multiple products. waters still green! oh yeah i work at fed ex! lol.............and if its not getting there on time i can tell you its problably not because the driver is lazy they just expect the drivers to accomplish the impossible!

Well i now have a "Slime Bag" i ordered from a slime bag website for 50 bucks. My pool has been clear and blue for a while now, but has had so many very small particles floating around that it has kept it cloudy and a had a green tint to it, due to the fine particles of brown floating around. When we shut off the pump, water would become very clear, and all the particles float to the bottom and when we tried to vacuum it comes right back through the sand filter and clouds the pool again. So now we vacuum with the slime bag connected to the output hose and vacuum about half the pool, then clean the bag, and vacuum the rest then clean the bag, hook up the filter to let it run and leave the bag on the outlet house. My water after 2 days is almost clear, i can see the bottom but has just a slight cloud, i think after one more day of vacuuming with the bag and cleaning it and letting my filter run it should be perfectly clear. Water just had so many particles that nothing would catch, but this bag catches up to 1 micron where sand i think only does like up to 4 or 5 microns. Jury is still out on the slime bag, but will let you know tomorrow, day 3 with it. So far its on its way to doing what it says, wished i would of went with the bigger one though, the smaller one gets full fast and once it gets full it starts leaking the brown smoke/silt/whatever all over the place, so you have to stop and clean. Bigger one would of been a lot better i think.
My numbers right NOW are:(WITH MY NEW TAYLOR K-2006) FROM AMATO IND. :)
cc 0
fc 5.2
ph 7.5
ta 130
cya 38
hardness 280

Didn't mean to knock fed ex, but here in eastern ky, they wait until they have 3 or 4 deliveries in the area before they waste the 4 bucks a gallon on gas, which is understandable, just hate it when you need something you have ordered.
IS THEIR A WAY TO CHECK METALS WITHOUT BUYING ANOTHER TYPE OF KIT?? OR DO I HAVE TO TAKE IT BACK TO THE PLACE THAT RAN THEM BEFORE? WOULD LIKE TO CHECK CREEK WATER, BUT WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO CHECK METALS WOULDN'T DO ME ANY GOOD I DON'T THINK?

[aylad]

You can't test for metals with the K-2006. There are metal testing kits available, but they're very expensive. You'd probably do better to take the sample back to a pool store and let them test for it. Alternately, you might check and see if your local water department will test for metals.