Patching a leak in a vinyl liner

[reesie]

We think we finally found the hole. It's in the wall but almost at the bottom of the wall. Does anybody have any experience with patching a hole? Do patches usually work?
Any tips?
Thanks again for all the help. It's great to have a place like this and people like you guys to turn to for help.
Just my luck, we finally got everything straight from the conversion process and now this. I think I said before it wasn't my year...it really isn't my year!

[Poconos]

Patches do work. If you can place it with your hands, that makes it easy. Get an underwater patch kit. You can use a scrap piece of liner or the clear patch that usually comes with a kit. Goop one side of the patch and put it in place. Squish out any excess cement and hold it in place until it sticks. The cement that comes with the kits, at least the ones I've used, is usually pretty aggressive and will tend to curl the patch quickly so you have to place it quickly. Boxer #100 is a slow acting cement that won't curl the patch quickly, gives you more time to place it, but takes a longer time to bond. If you can't place it with your hands then there are still ways to do it. Let us know what happens.
Al

[waste]

Try some of this:

Liner Patching 101


Liners are nice; they are usually pretty and are a good pool surface. However, sometimes they rip or develop holes. Fortunately patching a liner isn’t overly difficult.

The first thing you need to do is find the leaking area. Once you know where the liner is leaking you can determine how large a patch you’ll need to apply. You then need to procure some patching material (using a piece of your original liner is optimal, if that’s not an option, you can see if a pool store has a liner sample that matches your liner’s pattern or just use a clear patch) and some liner patching glue (Boxer 100 is arguably the best!) (Admin note: See links below.. Get a good sharp pair of scissors, a piece of cardboard, large enough to do your cutting and glue applying on, and a wall paper seam roller (last one I bought was less than $5).

The patch area needs to be clean and ready to accept the glue! For underwater patches, a wipe with a sponge should be good enough. For waterline, or above patches, a tablespoon of baking soda on a wet sponge should clean any oils or dirt that might interfere with the glue’s bonding. (Sandblasting a liner is NOT recommended- LOL)

If you have an underwater patch in the deep end of your pool, I strongly advise donning SCUBA gear – the new patch will need to be ‘worked’ for a few minutes after you apply it. If that’s not viable for you, take a look at Checking-for-a-leak (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?101)

OK, we’re ready to patch the hole in the liner.

You already know how big the hole is.

+ Cut a rounded patch (square corners make the patch vulnerable to premature peeling off) that is ~ ¾” larger than the hole, all around.

+ Be ready to apply and work the patch,

+ When you are, have everything ready on the deck closest to the patch. Have a piece of cardboard on which to apply the glue to the patch (so you don’t get any on the deck.).

+ With the patching material cut to size and the person who will apply it ready to ‘do the deed’, apply a thick, even coat of the glue and fold the patch so that it’s glue to glue (you want the water to not get to the glue until you’re applying it).

+ When the person applying the path has it at the leak, he opens the glued side and puts it over the hole.

+ Then use the seam roller to:
=> work the patch, from the center out to the edges and,
=> work the patch around the edge for a couple minutes (working out any wrinkles/ pockets on the inside- out to the edge at the same time (that’s why you want SCUBA gear for deep tears)

(If your hole is on the bottom, you can put a weight (like a bag of sand on it) overnight to help prevent the curling of the edges that often happens, when the seam roller isn’t utilized long enough.)

For large (over 1”holes) and ones that have had the floor washed out, I recommend applying a second patch, over the first – once it has set. The second patch is applied in the same way as the first and is a full 1” larger (all around) than the original patch!

A patch can last for years, if you keep folks from “playing” with it and are careful when you’re vacuuming the area.

=======================================

There is now a YouTube showing how to leak test a pool:

http://youtu.be/Y90c7pYMgPc


The Boxer glue and patch kits, recommended by most here, are now available on Amazon:


Boxer Adhesives No.110 4 oz Vinyl Pool Repair Kit (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00C404C26/poolbooks/)
Boxer 4 oz Vinyl Swimming Pool Liner Repair Kit (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0039ZFL98/poolbooks/)
Boxer Vinyl Pool Repair Kit Size: 2 Oz (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000JONXF6/poolbooks/)
=======================================

[waste]

It just occurred to me that I've seen the pics of Al's contraption (pole, paint roller, cloths pins...) - I don't know where they went but they were on this site at some point:)

[Poconos]

I found the pics and furthermore, I now know how to post them. Here's how I did a deep end patch.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--76Ui5cidUE/TcVHinIoOLI/AAAAAAAAAGc/aca-2WZohMc/s800/a3.jpg

This is a 3" paint roller that has been coated with silicone seal so any vinyl cement goo won't stick to it. It's taped to the end of a 10 foot PVC pipe.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Su44pkbhFMs/TcVHi6gDsvI/AAAAAAAAAGg/yaKc7-ZSzzM/s800/a4.jpg

This is a vinyl patch taped to a piece of clear plastic dropcloth. Kind of hard to describe but the plastic has been likewise coated with silicone seal to prevent the cement from attacking it. I didn't coat it under the patch so I could use double sided masking tape to stick the vinyl patch to the plastic sheet. The plastic sheet is there so I can roll the patch once it is in place. The black tape at the corners is just to make it more visible under water so you can position it more accurately. The string tied to one corner is so I can pull the plastic sheet off when done. The double sided tape, or plain masking tape folded on itself, may stick to the vinyl patch but after a little time it will come off.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kTb79Om8Is8/TcVHjBSmQtI/AAAAAAAAAGs/gSUrQs-geF4/s800/a5.jpg

This pic shows the patch assembly folded onto the roller. Goop the patch liberally with Boxer 100 vinyl cement. This is a slow acting cement that won't curl the patch and will give you time to work it into place. There are paperclips used to hold it in place on the roller. Another string is tied to the clips. Once placed over the hole, push gently for a few minutes to stick the patch to the liner so it won't slide around, then pull the string to pop the clips and release the plastic sheet and patch from the roller. Then use the roller to work the patch onto the liner. If you can, throw a small sandbag or something on the thing for a couple days until the cement sets fully. Then pull the string to pull the plastic sheet off the patch.

I had three small slits in my deep end right where the bowl transitions to the side at about 8 feet down. I did the patch in March 2006 (too cold to get in) and it's still holding fine. Rest of the liner is falling apart but the patch is holding.

Al

[reesie]

It took me a while to find the Boxer glue but I finally found it. I had to call 6 pool stores and travel 65 miles to get it but it was worth it. We followed the instructions, waited 24 hours after we patched it and refilled the pool. We had lost about half the volume of the pool. The hole was at the joint of the wall and the floor. It's been a little more than 10 days and everything's fine!
Thanks to everyone for the instructions on how to patch the liner!

[JimK]

Hopefully someone will see this post in this old thread.....

I found a very small tear in my liner and ordered the suggested Boxer patch kit to repair it. The included clear vinyl patch has a smooth side and a textured side, but the instructions don't say which on side to apply the adhesive.

Anyone know? My guess is the smooth side for maximum surface contact with the glue? Or the textured side to give the glue something to grip to? I don't know......but I'd like to get this right the first time.

Help!

Edit: I found an FAQ for Boxer Adhesives:

http://www.boxeradhesives.com/faq.html#11

According to the FAQ it makes no difference which side is used. :). I think I'll apply glue to the textured side so smooth side is exposed to water (don't want to give algae/gunk anything to cling to ;) ).

[CarlD]

If your pool wall is smooth, use the smooth side. I saved a bunch of vinyl from my old liner and use that to patch my current (now doomed) liner. I like to double-patch: The first patch is about 1/2" - 1" bigger than the hole. The second patch is at least an inch bigger than the first patch.

[JimK]

I do have pieces of the original liner, but it's thicker than the clear patch and I'm thinking the thicker/white edges will be more obvious and easier for something to catch on and pull off the patch.

Out of curiosity, I did a leak test where I found the small tear (it's very small; hard to see but can feel it with my finger). I didn't notice any dye (actuall I just used phenol red) being sucked in. Perhaps the tear doesn't penetrate the liner?

While I was checking for a leak, I also checked around the steps and fixtures.....nothing noticeable. The past two winters I lost about 4" over a period of about 7 months (pool coved with a solid cover), so there's a leak somewhere, but I can't find where. I'm not too concerned about it right now since it's such a slow leak. It's not noticeable during the swim season.

[CarlD]

If you get the outer patch sealed properly (I use a rubber tile roller) it will be FINE and last for years. I've tried other patching materials, but the Boxer glue and liner material, double-patched, make the BEST and most durable patches. IMHO.

[JimK]

If you get the outer patch sealed properly (I use a rubber tile roller) it will be FINE and last for years. I've tried other patching materials, but the Boxer glue and liner material, double-patched, make the BEST and most durable patches. IMHO.

I greatly appreciate the feedback and suggestions. :)

I do need to get a set of goggles before making the repair (I don't have any). The tear is in a corner that points into the pool (lazy L shaped pool) a few inches above where it meets the floor of the shallow end. I can't quite reach the tear without dunking my head under water, so goggles would probably be a good idea. I guess cheap goggles would be good enough? Suggestions?

[CarlD]

Yeah, cheap goggles. If you get the glue on them (it floats and you do NOT want it on your skin or in your hair) they are probably ruined.

[JimK]

I found an old pair of goggles in the closet, so I tried installing the patch.

What a PITA. First attempt was a bust. The tear is just deep enough that when I submerged and tried to unfold the patch and apply it I kept floating away. Second attempt with another patch went better. I smoothed it out with a wallpaper seam roller. Looks good...we'll see how it holds up.

Oh, and despite trying to be careful, I got glue on my hands. Looks like I'll have glue peeling off the next few days..lol

[CarlD]

Yeah, I find that "fold the patch" instruction NEVER works! I just coat it carefully out of the water, then drag it down and put it on, and roll it. But I always put on the larger patch next.

If the water's at all cold, I'll wear an old pair of wetsuit gloves to keep most of the glue off my fingers. BTW, acetone should clean that glue right off your hands.

[JimK]

Thanks for the tips. :) I'll keep them in mind for next time.

[PoolDoc]

Dye checking for leaks MUST be done with the pump off, and with you moving VERY slowly. It's almost impossible to do leak checking holding your breath, because the movement from bobbing up and down does not stop till AFTER you run out of air, and have to stir things up again.

[CarlD]

Last year, for the first time, I was able to use the dye successfully. I found two holes, fairly far apart where I thought there might be one. I just let the dye sit in the pool with the plumbing off and me NOT in the water, so it was still, and it found the holes.

[JimK]

Dye checking for leaks MUST be down with the pump off, and with you moving VERY slowly. It's almost impossible to do leak checking holding your breath, because the movement from bobbing up and down does not stop till AFTER you run out of air, and have to stir things up again.

I did shut the pump off a couple hours before trying the dye test. I also tried to move real slow. The places I tested the dye seemed to just sit there without much movement.

I watch a few videos so I'd have an idea what to look for, but I didn't observe anything like I saw in the videos.

At this point I'm not too worried about it since water loss over the winter was only about 1/2" per month. I don't notice any unusual loss during the summer.

I also wonder if the leak is actually somewhere above the water line and water only leaks out when we get a heavy rain during the winter causing a lot of water to collect on the cover, causing it to sag, and displacing the water in the pool above the normal level. Btw, I don't lower the water level at closing, the idea being to help prevent the liner from floating (we're only 9ft above sea level). Plausible?