New to this Forum from SoCal

[DirtRider67]

Hi, I am new here but have had a pool for about 8 years but because of a divorce, i had to leave my pool home for 2 1/2 years. Well, after a long court battle, i finaly got my house back and the pool is a swamp! i started off by giving a sample to my local pool store and they just keep feeding me tons of chemicles. I finaly have my water in balance and the water is a minty blue with the dead algae at the bottom. I can only see approximately 3 feet down but when i turn the creeper on, green water starts filtering back into the pool. I have a saly sytem that seems to not be functioning correctly so i have been dumping liquid chlorine in it at 3.50 a gal from Lowes. I have cleaned my filters once a day for a week now.

So, my question is, how do i get the dead algae out of the pool because from everything i've read on here, it won't go clear until it's out.

Pool Specs:
25k gallons
pebble tech
aquarite salt system
hayward cartridge filter


Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Watermom]

Hi DirtRider and welcome to the Pool Forum! Can you please post a current set of water testing results taken with a drops-based kit for us to look at? If your still seeing green, then your algae is apparently not dead. Give us some numbers and also tell us exactly what all you have put into the pool, meaning ingredients and not just product names or "shock." You should be brushing the floors and walls of the pool every day to help get things into suspension so your filter can catch it. Also, run the pump 24/7 right now while you are trying to clear the pool.

[DirtRider67]

Thanks for the greeting and advice Watermom.

right now, i am using a test strip and it all checks out good. These r the chemicles that i have put in so far and keep in mind that i did this prior to finding this forum:

10 gallons of chlorine
8 pounds of stabilizer
5 pounds of ph up
4 pounds of alkalinity booster
and i tried the swamp to swim

i have been cleaning the filters everyday for a week and running the pump non stop. I have not been running the creeper though. should i start?
Thanks

[Watermom]

You'll need a better test kit to make it easier to keep this pool clear. The one we recommend is the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C (same kit, larger bottle of some reagents). If you buy it through the Amazon link in my signature, the Pool Forum makes a little money on the sale which helps us keep this form online. Only buy if the seller is Amato Industries, however. Some other sellers are substituting the K-2005 which you do NOT want. If Amato isn't listed, wait a day or two and try again. They seem to restock pretty quickly when they sell out.

In the meantime, can you take a water sample to a reputable pool store and ask them to test for you and report your numbers here? Make sure that two of the readings they give you are CC and CYA in addition to FC, TC, pH, TA. But, don't let them talk you into buying a bunch of stuff. They'll try!

Repost with some good numbers and somebody here can help. I would wait on the creeper since you say it is throwing green water back out. Lets work on killing the algae first.

[DirtRider67]

OK. i just had the water tested at the pool store.

TA=110
PH=7.2
CYA=30
TH=340
TC=7.7
FC=7.7
CC=??? they didn't have a test for this but said it was 0
salt=3800

The pool store didn't try to sell me anything and said to just keep cleaning the filters and run the creeper. But, i will wait on the creeper because this forum seems to have more knowlege.
Thanks

[Watermom]

A question --- when you say 10lbs. chlorine, is this liquid or granular, and what is the ingredient? I'm suspecting cal-hypo because of your calcium hardness reading of 340.

[DirtRider67]

sorry, i meant 10 gallons of chlorine from Lowes. Lable reads: 10% sodium hypochlorite, 90% inert ingrediants, available chlorine 10%.

[Watermom]

Let's try shocking the pool up to about 12ppm this evening when the sun is off the pool. Then, test it again in the morning within 2 hours of sunrise and let's see how much chlorine you are losing overnight. If you lose more than 1ppm of cl overnight, that will tell us that the algae is not dead. Report back here tomorrow with your results. Run your pump 24/7 and clean the filter as necessary.

Until you can get a good kit like I suggested above (you need one!!) go to Walmart and pick up a cheap OTO/Phenol Red kit. (The one with the yellow and red drops.) That will be better than the strips. The OTO kit will only measure chlorine up to 5, but you can force it to go higher with a dilution method described here: Testing Without a Good Kit (http://poolsolutions.com/gd/how-to-test-your-pool-without-a-good-testkit.html )

Your TA is good, pH is ok at 7.2 but don't let it drop any lower. If it does, you'll need to bump it up a little with some 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle at Walmart.) In fact, while you are buying the OTO kit, go ahead and pick up a couple boxes of Borax while you're there to have on hand. Your TH is ok but you don't really want it any higher, so no cal-hypo for this pool.

Report back tomorrow with the results of the overnight test.

Hope this helps.

[DirtRider67]

Great. thanks for the advice. is there a specific brand of shock that you could recommend or is it all the same? How much would you think i need?

I will order the good kit as you stated.

Thanks again.

[Watermom]

Sorry I didn't get back to you after you posted again. I spent the evening in my own pool.

It isn't necessary to buy "shock." Shocking the pool just means giving it a hefty dose of chlorine. Just use the 10% sodium hypochlorite that you already have on hand. In your pool, each quart of the 10% chlorine will add 1ppm. When you test, add enough to get back to 12ppm. Do this for a day or so and see if you are losing any overnight.

Keep us posted!

[DirtRider67]

Ok, so without using the good test kit because i do not have one yet, here are my readings with the test strip.

TH=1000
TC=3
FC=3
ph=7
ta=120
cya=50

water is a milky blue. i brushed the sides and sturred up a lot of white particles.
I went to wal-mart and got Bleach, Borax, Baking soda but have not put any in yet.
Not sure what the next move should be. Is it time to vacum to waste? or should i wait?

Ps...Watermom, why don't you have your computer at the pool with you???haha. Glad that you got a chance to enjoy your pool. Must be nice. haha

[Watermom]

Maybe I should build a floating desk that attaches to a pool float so I can do forum while I'm in the pool!! ;);)

Did you try the overnight test to see if you lose more than 1ppm of cl? If not, do it tonight. Since you apparently have no CC, I doubt that you have live algae, but the overnight test will let you know for sure. If you use the 6% bleach from Walmart instead of the 10% you already had, the dosage will be different. A gallon (4 quarts) of the 6% bleach will add about 2.4ppm of cl. Take it on up to 12ppm this evening after the sun is off the pool. An hour after adding the bleach this evening, test your cl. Then test in the morning within two hours of sunrise. Compare the two readings and post them here.

Also, your pH is a little low. Add a half a box of Borax slowly to the skimmer while the pump is running, breaking up any clumps. Retest pH a couple hours later and redose with more Borax if needed. You want the pH between 7.2-7.8. It is fine to add the bleach and the Borax one right after the other, by the way.

What do you think the white particles are? I'm not really sure what they might be.

[DirtRider67]

LOL...floating desk would be cool.

I wasn't able to try the overnight test but i will try tonight. I am not currently living there but should be there full time by the end of the month. I found a basic test kit and used it but it's very basic as the label says. While i was over at the pool this afternoon at lunch time, i took a reading and it came up with the fc at 5 and the cc at 5 as well. so according to my calculations from yesturday, i have lost approximately 2ppm in 24 hours. ph was at 7.8 and ta at 150.

As far as the white particles go, i think its more of a powder that is clinging to the walls and bottom. I also turned the creeper on for a second and it shot green through the return. I am assuming that it's algae at the very bottom of the deep end which is about 8 feet.

[aylad]

You don't need to do the overnight test tonight..if you're getting green through the return, then you still have live algae living in the pool. Besides, if your CC really is 5 ppm, then that alone is an indicator to shock. So....shock the pool and try to hold it, til you see no more green, the pool clears, and the CC goes down to zero.

[DirtRider67]

Thanks for the advice aylad. So when you say shock it, do you mean to just use lots of bleach? I just went over and cleaned the filters for the 10th time in as many days. It's been covered in a milky white residue and washes off fairly easily. I checked the balance with the basic kit and the cc and fc are still the same which is over 5ppm. ph seems to be perfect and the ta is perfect. I have been running the filter pump non stop for about 10 days. is this over kill? do i really need to run it this much?

Thanks for any and all advice.

[DirtRider67]

Okay, i've done a bit more reading on this forum and think i have figured a few things out. So to keep the pool in shock, i need to be at a minum fc of 12ppm and no more than 15ppm. And since i have a salt system that may or may not be working, i should just keep it off while getting rid of the algae so i can better maintain the fc. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Question: is it better to have a lower cya so the chlorine can work better? Apparently having a high cya makes the chlorine work overtime and requires way more chlorine.

So, i ordered the Taylor kit and should be here shortly. what should i do in the meantime? I'm guessing that if i get a fc reading of 5 on the cheap kit, i should just adjust as accordingly.

[Watermom]

You are correct about your first paragraph.

Different pools need different CYA levels. For most people, around 40-50 is best. But, when you have a SWCG, you need to follow your SWCG manufacturer's recommendation which is usually around 80 or so. Check your manual.

Good for you for ordering the kit. You will love it and it will make things easier. Go back and reread post #6 in this thread where I linked an article for you to read called How to Test Without a Good Kit. Keep running the pump and stir up the white stuff on the bottom to try and get it into suspension so your filter can get it.

[aylad]

Your shock levels of 12-15 are a little low-that's for people with lower CYA levels than yours. With a CYA of 50, you should shock it to a minimum of 15 ppm, and since you're at the upper end of the range, I would go between 15-20. Check out the "best guess chlorine chart" in the link in Watermom's sig for the chart that explains the CYA/chlorine level relationship.

You probably do need a higher CYA level with your SWCG, as Watermom indicated, but until you get the pool cleared up, I wouldn't add more, and would just shut the SWCG off and clear it with bleach. No need in wasting cell life!

[CarlD]

If you are getting 10% chlorine at Lowes or H-D for $3.50, that's not a bad price. It may actually be 12.5% but they mark it lower to prevent lawsuits.

The reason you weren't given a CC level by the Pool Store and why they said it was 0 is that your FC and TC were the same. TC is total chlorine and TC = FC + CC. This is always even if your test strip says TC is lower than FC (which they do!) So if you have two of the 3 measures you can calculate the third. The standard DPD test that can measure only up to about 15ppm measures FC and TC. So CC=TC-FC. The far more useful FAS-DPD test (which is in the kit you ordered) measures up to 50ppm and measures FC and CC instead. Here TC = FC + CC.

Meanwhile there's nothing I can add to Jan and Lisa's advice on what to do. Good luck!

Carl

[DirtRider67]

Hi, thanks for all the great advice. I believe my last cya was at 20 and can't remember if i put more stabilizer in or not. I will recheck today.

I did find that post on how to test without a good kit and will try it today.

I went to wal-mart this morning and got 15 gallons of bleach at 1.27 ea. Do you think that's a better price than the chlorine at 3.50 a gal? I know i would need less but will it all work the same?

thanks again

[aylad]

My last post was based on your original reporting of a CYA of 50. It would be a good idea to go ahead and run a new set of tests, just to make sure we know the correct numbers to start with.

The $1.27 bottles of bleach at WalMart are 3 quarts, not a gallon. So that makes it roughly 42 cents/quart for 6% bleach. The 10% chlorine at $3.50/gallon works out to 88 cents/quart, which would be roughly 44 cents/quart for 5%. So...the difference is literally pennies...but you don't have to haul as many jugs with the higher percentage. Just personal preference on your part. Either way, chlorine is chlorine is chlorine, once it's all in the water.

If your total hardness is really 1000, as you reported in your first post, the white particles in your water are probably calcium precipitating out. High calcium, combined with high TA and high pH (although your pH isn't high--but then again we're relying on test strips) will create milky water. The only thing I know to do to lower it is to try to lower your alk, following the steps outlined here http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/lowering-swimming-pool-alkalinity-step-by-step.html, and to keep filtering as much of it out as you can. I definitely wouldn't use any more cal-hypo for chlorination. If that doesn't work, if your fill water is lower in calcium, then you're probably going to have to drain/refill some water to get that hardness level down.

[DirtRider67]

Sorry bout that. i did post a cya50. i took to pool store today and it is actually at 30 with a fc of 8.4. so, this morning, i swept the sides and put 9 quarts of bleach at 6%. So that should have brought the fc between 12-15. Heading back now to check on it.

I made a boo-boo on the th. it's actually at 350. But thanks for catching that.

[DirtRider67]

So this afternoon, i checked the fc and it was at 6 so i added 3.1 jugs of chlorine. i went back this evening and i could almost see the bottom of the shallow end. the water was a deep blue. a big change from the milky blue. the fc was at 8 so i added 2 jugs and cleaned the filters and brushed the sides again. not much residue on the sides and reef step. Hopefully the good test kit comes tomorrow so i can get a more accurate reading.

Question: should i start using the creeper and start cleaning the bottom or should i wait on this?

[Watermom]

Give the creeper a try. Also, be sure you are cleaning your filter as needed.

[DirtRider67]

Ok. so i went over to the house this morning and checked the FC and had to add 2 jugs. I went ahead and turned the creeper on and oh boy what a big mistake. It sucked some debris up and clogged the creeper. Word of advice: don't turn the creeper on until you can see what's on the bottom. I'm not quite there yet. but, i can almost see the bottom of the shallow end. getting excited now!

i went back this afternoon and added 3 more jugs then made a run to wal-mart to pickup another 15 jugs of chlorine. i also tested for ph and ta and they were spot on. I think that i am starting to understand this pool stuff thanks to this forum and the BBB method. I look forward to getting back into my house so that i can use the pool and take pride in ownership. Once i get back into the house and get the pool dialed in, i need to work on fixing the jacuzzi. It has had a leak for about 5 years so it has sat empty and has been bypassed. The builder went out of business so the warranty meant doggie doo. It will most likely require tearing up some concrete to get to the leak. But hey, i would rather swim than boil.

Thanks again for all the help from this forum.

[Watermom]

But hey, i would rather swim than boil.

Me, too!!!

[DirtRider67]

so last night i cleaned the filters and added some water because of evaporation and i put in 12 quarts of bleach.

This morning, i could actually see the bottom of the shallow end. The FC was at about 10 so I added 12 more quarts of bleach. and brushed just the shallow end.
Question: Where is the best place to dump the bleach? I have been dumping in the shallow end thinking that it would be stronger there and work better?

I also took a water sample to the pool store this morning. here are the results.
TA=110
Shock Treatment=1.4
pH=7.1
CYA=30
TH=350
TC=10.9
FC=9.5
Recomendations were to add 2lbs non chlorine shock. I bought 2lbs of it. Active ingredient: potassium monopersulfate=44.7% inert=55.3%
I will wait for opinions of this forum before i add this.

Also, after measuring my kidney bean shaped pool, 14wx35lx6d, i believe that I only have 23k gallons.

[Watermom]

Either pour your bleach slowly into the skimmer while the pump is running or slowly in front of a return jet. Either way is fine.

Do NOT add the non-chlorine shock! Return and get your money back. You do not need it. Just keep hammering it with bleach. If you keep the chlorine at shock level consistently per the Best Guess chart in my signature, your pool will clear.

Your pH is a bit low. Do you have some Borax? Add a half a box slowly to the skimmer while the pump is running, retest pH in a couple of hours, add more if needed. You want pH to between 7.2-7.8 -- probably best to be on the low end while you are trying to clear the pool.

TA is fine. CYA at 30 is ok but after this is all cleared up, you might want to bump it up to 40-50. TH is fine but you don't want it higher than 400. I don't know what "shock treatment level =1.4 means. ???

Do me a favor since this thread is getting long and it is hard to remember all your details and time-consuming to have to keep scrolling back through to remind us about your set-up. Go to "settings" and create a signature line. In it include type of pool, volume, type of filter, size of pump and what test kit you use. Thanks.

By the way --- I noticed that you subscribed today. Thanks for that! We appreciate the financial support to keep our forum online!

[DirtRider67]

No problem. i wanted to give back for all the help. I wish i could do more and will over time because i plan on being around here for awhile.

So, i pumped up my pH today. Thanks for catching that Watermom. Your such a good mommy. lol. I did not add the non-chlorine shock as advised. (Thanks for that). I wasn't able to go by for lunch so the X was there and asked her to pour 12 quarts of bleach in as that's what I've been doing, so she did. She was shocked at the progress that I've made.

I went over this evening and cleaned the filters again. Then checked pH and it was good. Checked FC and it was at about 10 so i put 12 more quats of chlorine in. Then I brushed from the shallow end down to the deep end and stirred it up a little. So, i have been doing this for about a week now. How much longer do you suspect this will take to geter cleared up enough to swim? I upped the chlorine count because of my CYA being a bit higher and according to Best Guess chart.

I set up my signiature so we'll see if it posts this time.

[Watermom]

because i plan on being around here for awhile.

Good! I hope so!


So, i pumped up my pH today. Thanks for catching that Watermom. Your such a good mommy. lol.

Thanks! (That gave me a chuckle! :):) )


How much longer do you suspect this will take to geter cleared up enough to swim?

No way to know for sure, but hopefully soon. You are making good progress. It will clear up though. That I can promise you!

BTW -- Thx for making a signature line with your info. I wish more people would do that. It sure makes it easier for us to be able to help!

[DirtRider67]

I got my Taylor K2006 today and am not sure that i totaly understand it. I Am trying to figure out how to do the FC and at the 10ml line, i got a count of 64 drops before it turned clear. Seems that I am doing something wrong. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. thanks

[DirtRider67]

Well I guess everyone is out enjoying their sparkling pools huh? Must be nice =-)...

So, i am having trouble getting a good reading with the FC and i took my sample to the pool store. Here are my results and by the way, i can see the outline of my creeper in the deep end.

TA=110
pH=7.3
cya=50
TH=370
TC=12.2
FC=9.7

seems that my cya has gone up and my TC is pretty high.

[Watermom]

Looking at these Taylor kit online testing demos might be helpful for you.

http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_choose_slideshow.asp

[DirtRider67]

Thanks Watermom. I did it the way they are explaining and it never works out for me. everything else but the FC works. The powder stuff was spilled inside the kit when i got it and i poured it back in the container so i just wonder if that may be the problem.

Anyway, i just keep putting 3 jugs in 3 times a day and it seems to work. And this morning, I can see the bottom of the deep end. yippee! but, there is tons of dead algae on the bottom and some of it is probably still alive because when i scoop it with the net, it's still a little. I would imagine that when it's completely dead, it will not clump into the net and sift through it.

So, i will just keep adding the chlorine for the next few days and see where i am at. Any tips on getting the dead algae out besides running it through the filters?

[aylad]

Net as much out as you can--but with a cartridge filter I don't think you have a way to vacuum out to waste, so I'm thinking it'll have to go through your filter...

[DirtRider67]

My pool is sparling clear! Now the task is to get all the dead algae out. I blocked the skimmer and figure that the bottom suction should suck it all up. There are 3 suction covers in the deep end so if i sweep everything to them, then hopefully it will filter it all. I stirred it up this morning and will see how it looks this evening. Hopefully it's not all just getting recirculated. I may try to vacum to waste but using a sweeper and opening the hose outlet before the filters.

If anyone has any ideas, i would love to hear them.

[kelemvor]

If you stirred the stuff up, you may want to check the pressure on your filter often. It will probably rise quickly as it becomes full of dead algae.