Phosphates problem

[reichhartkg]

After trying to battle cloudy water for two days with obscene amounts of chlorine, I got my water tested today. All of the chemical levels are normal except the pH, but he said I have an extremely high level of phosphates (>2500).

He had a product there, but had just gotten it in and didn't know what it costs yet. He said to shock it again and if that didn't help, and it probably wouldn't, to check back in a few days.

Are there any grocery store items that can be used to combat phosphates?

My numbers are...
TA 100
pH 6.6
CYA 30
TH 90
TC 1.9
FC 1.9

[PoolDoc]

Guys, you don't have a phosphate problem -- you have pool store problem!

Phosphates, nitrates, TDS are ALL tests that primarily serve to sell goop, not to help customers. -- Please note; I don't think most pool stores understand chemistry well enough to do this on purpose, but accidentally or deliberately, these tests serve them more than they do you! --

High phosphates *may* contribute to algae; they do not themselves cause cloudy water. Check through my 100 Reasons page:
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/100-reasons-for-cloudy-swimming-pool-water.html
and see if one of those issues applies to you.

Meanwhile, add borax -- 1 box per 10,000 gallons, slowly, through skimmer with pump ON! -- to get your pH up, and add bleach to get your chlorine up above 5 ppm -- 1 gallon per 10,000 with pump on.

[CarlD]

Hi and welcome.
First, Phosphate levels are rarely a problem. We have users with levels over 3000 with clear, sanitary pools. Phosphates FEED algae, but if you don't have any algae anyway, they can't feed and grow off it. Phosphates are simply the latest "gimmick" in pool store sales.

Your problem is multiple.
First, your pH is way too low. You need to add Borax immediately, right now, especially if you have a vinyl pool. What size is it? What kind of filter and pump?
Borax will safely raise your pH. If your pool is 10,000 gallons or more, add a full box. Wait an hour, test pH, and repeat, until pH is at least 7.2. If it's under 10,000 gallons, use a half box. If it's under 5000 gallons, use 1/4 box....this is just ball-parking. Yes, 20 Mule Team Borax. From the supermarket's laundry section.

DO NOT USE POOL STORE PH RAISERS! THEY WILL RAISE YOUR TA TOO MUCH! Besides, all the pool store products like pH Up! and Balance Pak 200 are nothing more than Arm&Hammer Washing Soda--Sodium Carbonate.

If you have a vinyl pool, a pH below 6.9 can damage your liner. That is more important than algae so it needs to be fixed.

Next, when your pH is fixed, you can worry about the next problem: Algae.

For your level of CYA, you need to raise your FC level to the shock level, which is 15ppm, and keep it there. DO NOT USE TRI-CHLOR OR DI-CHLOR PUCKS OR POWDER! THEY ARE ACIDIC!
We recommend ordinary 6% bleach for chlorination. 1 gallon of 6% adds 6ppm of FC to 10,000 gallons of water. Figure accordingly. If your Calcium level is fairly low (200 ppm or less) you can use Cal-Hypo powder. It tends to raise pH a little, can cause white cloudiness (not a major problem) and adds calcium. But bleach or Liquid Chlorine (same thing. Most LC solid is stronger, about double) is best.


You need to test and add more bleach at 3x/ day: Morning, mid-day to dinner, and after sunset. You want to maintain FC at 15 so that it doesn't drop much over night.

Plus you'll need to run your filter 24/7, and brush your pool every day, and vacuum to waste at least once a day if you see debris on the pool floor.

Check out our sister site at poolsolutions.com. It's got lots of great information that WORKS!

All the best,

Carl

[reichhartkg]

He said that phosphates are algae food, and as long as I have high phosphates, I'm going to be fighting it.

Two days ago, I added 2 gallons of 10% sodium hypo, 2 pounds of super shock-n-swim (54% cal hypo), 12oz granular chlorine, and the recommended amount of algaecide. After all that, the FC was still 0.

Yesterday, I added 6 gallons of 10% and 2x 1.84gal 6%. After the first 4 gallons, the FC was still 0.

The pH was fine yesterday, but started to go down after I accidentally dumped out my floater while trying to pull it out of the pool. I just fished 3 pucks out, but I think there's still 3 in there. It's very difficult to retrieve things that you can't see. I added 1/2 box of borax right after I got back from the pool store, and the pH is now up to about 7. I just added the other 1/2, but most of it is still in the skimmer basket.

The pool guy said to add 1 pound of super shock (68% cal hypo) now and 3 more tonight, since it will be used this evening. The 1 pound has cleared it up enough that I can now see the floor in the shallow end, and brought the FC up to >10 (the limit of my test strips). Using 1/2 pool water and 1/2 tap water shows the FC at about 6.

[PoolDoc]

Hi Reichhartkg;

It sounds like you are trying to split the difference between our advice and the pool stores; if so, it won't work out well for ANYONE. You need to pick, for your own sake and your pool's sake: us or them!

If you want us to help you, we need to know how many gallons are in your pool, and you need to stop all the pool store goop.

Good luck!

[rcy100]

He said that phosphates are algae food, and as long as I have high phosphates, I'm going to be fighting it.



Typical pool store mumbo jumbo. However, if you don't have any algae, there will be nothing to eat the phosphates, high level or not. The key is to prevent algae in the first place.

The borax shouldn't be still sitting in the skimmer basket. You should pour it in slowly so it dissolves, not dump the whole box in one fell swoop.

Seriously, and I know it's hard, I would disregard most of the advice of the pool store and follow directions here. For instance, that super shock you're using will raise you calcium level. High calcium can also lead to cloudy water (with high PH I think).

All you need is bleach. And you need to keep the free chlorine at shock level based on your CYA until you pass the overnight free chlorine loss test. Something is consuming your chlorine and you need to keep shock level until it stops getting consumed.

[CarlD]

You are getting sound advice from us. We've seen LOTS of algae-filled pools and helped clear them up.
Algaecide does no good. Most simply add high amounts of ammonia or copper to your water and make it harder to clear up. The ONLY one we recommend is Polyquat, but more as a preventative. If you add a quart of Polyquat to a 20,000 gallon pool, even with chlorine at shock levels, within 48 hours your chlorine level will be at or near zero. I'm not guessing on this--it's part of my closing routine in the fall. I run my chlorine up to 15 (shock level for my usual CYA leve). I add a full quart of Polyquat (I use about an ounce once a week if at all), wait 48 hours. My chlorine inevitable drops to zero. I then add bleach/liquid chlorine till I'm back at shock level and close.

Other algaecides can cause foaming or gooping up as well.

Add 3 kinds of chlorine, ie LC, Cal-Hypo and Di-Chlor (that granular chlorine you added) does NOTHING more than adding an equivalent amount of bleach. In the water, chlorine is chlorine.

Your pool store guy wants to scare you into buying more stuff. And PhosFree is definitely "stuff". You've heard it here from several people: Phosphates can only feed algae if you HAVE algae. They can't magically produce it.

Carl

[waterbear]

Don't listen to the pool store advice. I can tell you with confidence you will get better advice here. How do I know? I've worked in pool stores!

[CarlD]

Don't listen to the pool store advice. I can tell you with confidence you will get better advice here. How do I know? I've worked in pool stores!

And we beat and harassed and annoyed it right out of him! :) :) :) :<

[PoolDoc]

Hey guys;

Save your breath --- well, your keystrokes, anyhow. I just checked the activity log -- reichhartkg hasn't been back since my post about picking one or the other. Looks like he picked the pool store.

Hope it works out for him!

[reichhartkg]

Nope... picked the rest of my life that also takes time.

[PoolDoc]

That's fine. I just didn't want the thread to take on a life of its own, when it looked like you were going in another direction. Let us know if you need some help.

[CarlD]

Nope... picked the rest of my life that also takes time.

Been there...Family always comes first...and since "a job" is how you provide for said family....We all have been there.

Carl