Drain and refill 33,000 gallon gunite pool

[bugsy0329]

We just drained, cleaned, and are in the process of refilling our pool. I am lost as to what to do once it's filled (other than taking a water sample to the pool store). I don't know how much bleach, stabilizer, etc. to put in the pool once I get the readings back.

[CarlD]

You are going to need to measure and watch the following things:
FC (Free Chlorine)
CC (Combined Chloramines)
TC (Total Chlorine)
pH
TA or T/A (Total Alkalinity)
CH (Calcium Hardness)
CYA (Cyanuric Acid, also called Stabilizer, Balancer or Conditioner)

1 gallon of 6% bleach will add about 1.8ppm of FC to your pool.

You'll want a test BEFORE you add anything, but the most important steps are:
0) Get a good test kit before you start. We recommend the Taylor K-2006 and you can link to it on the signatures of PoolDoc, Watermom, aylad, and (I believe) Poconos. Also get a simple OTO/pH kit for now. These are the most valuable investments you can make.
1) Getting you pH in the range of 7.2 to 7.8 Use 20 Mule Team Borax to raise pH, Muriatic Acid or Dry Acid to lower it.
2) Getting an initial shock level of chlorine into your pool--6 gallons of 6% bleach ought to do it.
3) Getting a minimal level of CYA to keep your chlorine from disappearing. Start by aiming for 30ppm, and no more. It's better to get to 15 or 20ppm and need to add more than put in too much and get to 40 or 50 too soon. It can take a week for the CYA reading to show. Get this stuff at a pool store or the pool section of WalMart, K-Mart, etc. Use about half of what the container says will get your pool to 30ppm. You can always add more much easier than reducing it.

Don't worry about Total Alkalinity or Calcium Hardness just yet. When you do, you'll use simple baking soda to raise TA and Calcium (from a pool store) to get to the 200-400ppm level of calcium.

We'll guide you through it.

DO NOT ADD ALGAECIDES,CLARIFIERS, BLUING, PHOSPHATE REMOVERS OR ANYTHING ELSE! The pool store will push all this stuff on you...for now, only buy stabilizer and, if you don't want to deal with Muriatic Acid, then buy Dry Acid as well. You can always get Calcium from them later.

Do NOT waste your money on their "Total Alkalinity Raise" or any pH raiser, like "pH Up!" or "Balance Pak 200" etc. Total Alkalinity Raiser is Baking Soda, at 3 or 4 times the price. If they tell you it's not baking soda, they are wrong. Period. Pool chem companies use another name for Sodium Bicarbonate that makes it sound "different" but it's still just bicarb.
pH raisers are comprised of Washing Soda, which is $.80/lb in the supermarket and $3-$6/lb in the pool store. Same chemical.
Bleach and Liquid Chlorine are the same stuff. Some LC is 6%, same as bleach, some is 12.5%, about twice bleach. Usually bleach is cheaper.



Finally go to PoolSolutions.com and read the tips and stuff there.

Carl

[Watermom]

Good advice from Carl. Just a couple of thoughts from me.

You won't have any CYA in fill water, so don't waste the reagents testing for it until a full week after you have added some as it slow dissolving. No reason to waste reagents.

Also, you may not need muriatic acid. No reason to buy it and store it if you don't need it. If it were me, I'd wait before buying that to see if your pH is high and you need it. I never need it in my pool. Just my $0.02.

Regarding the test kit Carl recommended ---- YES! Buy it! You'll be so glad you did. But, when you click on the Amazon link in my signature, only buy if the seller is Amato Industries. Some other sellers are substituting the K-2005 which you do NOT want. Occasionally, today being one of them, you get another seller shown when you click on the link which means they are currently out of stock. (They do have the 2006C kit however, which is the same kit as the 2006 but has larger quantities of some of the most used reagents.) At any rate, they usually are re-stocked really fast -- like within a day or so if you prefer the K-2006 kit.

Welcome to the forum! (We've had quite a few new members from LA this year which is where one of our mods (Aylad aka Janet) is from.

[bugsy0329]

One more question (for now)...It is raining cats and dogs here and the pool is not yet full. Should I add a gallon of bleach to keep the pool from turning green?

[Watermom]

Sorry so long replying to your post. I wouldn't fool with it tonight since it is already pretty late, but maybe in the morning go ahead and add some. In a 33k gallon pool, each gallon of 6% bleach will add about 1.8ppm of chlorine to the water. So, depending on how full the pool is, maybe add enough bleach to take the cl up to about 5 or 6. You'll lose most of that during the day tomorrow since you won't yet have any CYA in there so you'll need to do it again tomorrow in the evening and maybe even in the afternoon if you are home. Stir the water around with a clean broom or something to mix it in until the pump is up and running. Let us know when the pool is full and then we'll help you go from there.

[bugsy0329]

Pool is full. My husband wants to change the sand. I don't. Sand is at least 6 years old, though. Filter is old (made by PacFab), and I can't read anything stamped on it. I can, however, read that it calls for pea gravel and sand. Should I just wait until next year to change sand and buy a new filter and start from scratch?

[Watermom]

You can change the sand if you want, but it really isn't necessary. I have had the same sand for the past 11 seasons, Poconos (fellow mod) is on his 14th season. Others probably longer.

[bugsy0329]

OK. I'm finally back. BTW, love you Watermom. We did not change the sand! Please don't be angry but I went to Leslie's and got the big test kit they have, and it's the K2005. I realized this after I tested the water and was thumbing through the book. My levels are as follows:

FC 3
TC 3
CC 0
ph 7.8
TA 110 ppm
CH 100
CYA 100+ (probably 120)

I did add stabilizer tabs once pool was filled. Something is off, though as it's taking 3 tabs daily.

What do I do now?

Thanks!

[Watermom]

There is no way with this being a freshly filled pool that you could have used enough pucks yet to have CYA that high. Did you add some CYA separately and if so, how much.

Since you bought the K-2005, if you pick up the K-1515 you'll have the same components as the K-2006. The K-1515 is the part that allows you to test high chlorine levels. Check the Amazon link in my signature.

[bugsy0329]

Tested again this morning. I now see what I was doing wrong.

FC 5
TC 5
CC 0
ph 8.0
TA 130
CH 90
CYA 0

What do I add now?

Thanks!

[bugsy0329]

Also, my drain is abandoned. How many hours a day should I run the pump?

[Watermom]

You will not keep that cl level at 5 for long with no CYA. Check the cl at least morning and evening and afternoon if you can and add more bleach so your cl doesn't drop to zero. You'll have to dose it frequently with bleach until you get some CYA in there.

Are you going to continue to use the trichlor pucks? If so, here is what I would do. I would go ahead and buy some stabilizer and add enough to get the CYA reading to about 20. Then, you can use the pucks awhile and build the CYA up to about 50. After that, no more pucks and no dichlor shock either or your CYA will get too high.

The other option is to not use the pucks and just add some CYA separately and go ahead and add enough to get to about 40. We also shoot a little low. It is easier to add a little more later than it is to remove it when there is too much. Either option will work.

You can just use the tabs and not add any CYA but the only issue with that is that it will take some time to build the CYA up and until you have much in there, you'll have a hard time keeping chlorine in the pool especially on a hot, sunny day.

To add CYA you can either pour it slowly into the skimmer while the pump is running and then let your pump run 24/7 for at least 4 or 5 days to give it time to dissolve in the filter. Or you can put some in an old sock and hang that in front of a return jet and let it dissolve that way. You can squeeze the sock every now and then to help it dissolve faster.

Your pH is too high. Add a little muriatic acid in front of a return jet while the pump is running. Wait a couple of hours, retest pH, and redose as needed. (If you have a sock of CYA there, remove it before adding muriatic acid.) I'd start with a pint of acid. Wear gloves, glasses, stay upwind of fumes, pour close to the surface of the water so it doesn't splash any.

[bugsy0329]

I put 3 lbs of CYA in a knee-high. How long do I have to wait after adding muriatic acid to swim? Once CYA is in a acceptable range, how long should I run my pump each day? My drain is abandoned.

[PoolDoc]

If your pool is circulating, 15 - 30 minutes after adding muriatic should be long enough for adequate mixing.

Work out how long to run your pump AFTER you get the pool operating properly and your chemicals adjusted. Start with 24/7, and work downwards.

[CarlD]

Once you get the K-1515, you'll probably never use the DPD test in the K-2005 again. And, just to reinforce what 'Mom said: The ONLY difference between the K2005 and K2006 is the FAS-DPD Chlorine test, and the K-1515 takes care of that for you. It's only about another $20. Also you should have a GOOD OTO test kit. Leslies should have one that uses Taylor reagents and measures to 5ppm on the chlorine side, and uses R-0014 on the pH side. If so, this is the same as the Taylor K-1000, which, IMHO, is the best OTO kit you can buy--and the Leslies kit is the Taylor kit in a Leslies box.
Also, if you are testing CYA often, see if Leslies has the CYA reagent: R-0013 and if they have it in a larger size. I buy it in pint bottles, myself.

I actually have the Leslies version of the K2005...but that's because I have about five different "Service" kits of various types, numerous OTO kits, various single tests, including FAS-DPD, CYA, Salt and Copper.

Carl

[bugsy0329]

I am about to call a sand truck to fill in the pool. I have been battling green water for over a week. Except for chlorine (which I didn't test b/c I have been too lazy to buy the supplemental kit), everything is in line. ph-7.6, ta-100, ch-100, cya-40. I have scrubbed and added bleach almost daily - 5 gallons at a time. The water is grass green. Oh, yeah, we're hosting a surprise party Saturday. HELP ME PLEASE!

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I am going to add more stabilizer, too.

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Added 12# stabilizer. Water is beginning to clear near steps. Maybe I panicked for nothing?

[famousdavis]

But if you haven't bought the chlorine test kit as previously advised, how else can this forum help you?

[aylad]

Five gallons of 6% bleach in 33K gallons will only raise your FC to 9.1 ppm. With a CYA of 40, your shock level should be 15 ppm. So...if you'll add enough bleach to get your Cl at least 15 ppm, and hold it there (which is going to require testing and adding more bleach to maintain at least 15 ppm), the pool will clear. If you're only keeping the Cl around 9, you're wasting both time and bleach. In your pool, each 1/2 gallon of 6% bleach raises your Cl by 1 ppm, so you can use that to figure how much to add back each time you test. Once your stabilizer dissolves, and the CYA goes up, so will that shock value. Bur for now, if you want it to clear, get the chlorine level up where it needs to be, keep it there by testing and adding more chlorine as many times during the day as possible, and keep your pump running 24/7.

If you added 12 lbs of stabilizer, then your CYA is about to go to up roughly 80 ppm, so that shock level raises to 20 ppm. If you haven't completely dissolved it yet, I would pull the remaining stabilizer out (or backwash it out if you put it in the filter) until you get the pool cleared, and THEN raise it back up to 80 ppm.

You can clear the pool by Saturday, maybe not to sparkling but at least to okay for a party, but it's going to take a lot of bleach and a LOT of consistency on your part.

[Watermom]

I have been battling green water for over a week. Except for chlorine (which I didn't test b/c I have been too lazy to buy the supplemental kit),
Can't be lazy with a pool or you'll continue the green swamp cycle! Good luck getting your pool clear. Follow Jan's advice and hopefully your pool will look pretty good by Saturday.

[bugsy0329]

Tested for FC. It is zero. CYA is 60. Should I shoot for 15 gallons, or 20 (just to be safe)?

[aylad]

In 33K gallons of water, 11 gallons of 6% bleach should give you approx. 20 ppm of Chlorine, which is where you need to be to achieve "shock" level for a CYA of 60. After you add that initial dose,and get to 20 ppm, you need to test and add more chlorine as often as possible to maintain that 20 ppm level--that means in a pool your size, each 1/2 gallon of bleach will raise your FC by 1 ppm, so when you retest, add whatever amount of bleach you need to get back over 20 ppm. You need to hold it at or above the 20 ppm mark until it clears up and you are not losing more than 1 ppm of chlorine overnight. This is a process, not a one-time thing. The more consistent you are about maintaining the 20 ppm, the faster the pool will clear up. And...if you're planning to have a pool party this weekend, you're going to need to be very consistent about it if you want to be able to use the pool. Keep your pump running 24/7 while you're doing this, cleaning your filter as the pressure indicates, and brush the pool at least once a day.

Good luck!!
Janet