Hi Phosphates

[mkamp1515]

Hello Everyone.

As the title suggests, I have high phosphates (2500).:eek: I have sufficient chlorine (1.7) and the pool actually looks really good. I have 2 forms of treatment available. I have a bottle of PhosFree and I also have the Phosfloc treatment as well. With the PhosFree, I know I would have to backwash approximately 8-12 hours into the treatment due to the high pressure building. With the Phosfloc, I would treat the water overnight and vacuum the next morning. My question is, given the 2500 phosphate level, would the PhosFree do the job? Or is the Phosfloc necessary. I have treated with PhosFree in the past, but my phosphate level was not quite as high. I do have a vacuum, but I have never used it. Additionally, if flocing and vacuuming is the answer, should I put my pump dial on waste so I bypass the filter?

Please help. :)

Mike

[Watermom]

I really can't comment on the phosphates, but the question I have is about your chlorine reading. You say that you have sufficient chlorine at 1.7. Without knowing all of your test readings, it is hard for us to know if 1.7 is sufficient or not. Please post a full set of water testing results (FC, CC, TC, PH, alk, Cal hardness, CYA) and tell us what type and volume pool you have. Then, that will help us help you. Welcome to the forum.

[mkamp1515]

Sorry, I guess I should have posted that. I can not find the readout so the best I can do is memory.

TC 1.7
FC 1.6
pH 7.8 (added a little acid)
alk 105
CYA upper 30s, low 40s

That is all I remember. The guy at the store said everything else looked fine, just the phosphates were high. I think I have read that as long as your other readings are fine...phosphates do not matter. I am too new (pool 1 year old) to know. I have yet to have algae and I do not ever want it. I may be a little too cautious.

I went ahead and started the PhosFree treatment since I had 2 bottles already. I think I will go that route first since it is easier than the Phosfloc. Please let me know if I am off base.

Another question I have is if my chlorine level is good (1.5 or higher), can I still get algae?

Thank you very much,

Mike

[Watermom]

Actually, for the level of cya that you have, your chlorine reading is too low and you are risking an algae bloom. Take a look at the chart at the following link. For cya between 30-50, your chlorine level should stay between 3-6.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

I really can't comment on using the phosphate treatments.

[mkamp1515]

Watermon,

Please bear with me as I am still a pool chemical idiot. Is that chart you referenced saying the less stabilizer, the lower the chlorine should be? I thought it would be the other way around. Please explain so I understand better. Thank you for your time and advice.

Mike

[Watermom]

Yes. The less stabilizer, the less chlorine you need to sanitize your pool. The more stabilizer, the more chlorine you need to do the same job.

Chlorine breaks down in sunlight. Stablizer is kind of like "sunscreen" for your chlorine. It keeps your chlorine from quickly disappearing on hot sunny days. All outdoor pools need stabilizer. However, stabilizer blocks the ability of chlorine to sanitize your pool. Therefore, the more stabilizer you have in your pool, the higher your chlorine levels need to be to sanitize your pool. You have to have the proper balance of both in your water. Does that make any sense?

[mkamp1515]

OK. I understand. I knew the stabilizer was needed to preserve the chlorine in the pool. But, I did not know the higher the stabilizer level, the higher the chlorine needed to be. I took your advice and increased the chlorinating % on the SWG. I have the little testing kit that came with the pool. It only goes up to 3.0 and the yellow was at least that dark. So, I know it is at least 3.0 at this time. The PhosFree worked some overnight as the phosphate level went down, but it is still between 1000 and 2000. I will probably have to do at least one more treatment. Thanks again for your help.

Mike

[bassadict69]

I assume the pool store is testing your water & checking your phosphates???

What size is your pool? From experience, I can tell you that with a larger pool, 1 treatment of the Phosfree will not lower your phosphates that much.

I also can tell you NOT to do the Phosfloc unless it is a last resort to cure algae p[roblems.

Keep you chlorine where it should be according to the cya chart & don't worry about the phosphates unless you absolutely have to.

[mkamp1515]

My pool is free form, 36ft long and 24 ft at its widest and 16 ft at its thinnest. It holds 20,000 gallons as it is 3.5ftx5ftx4ft on the depth. It has a SWG and Tahoe Blue Pebble Tec. I would really like to get the phosphates down. Will multiple treatments of PhosFree work? I know it is expensive but I do not want to floc if I do not have to.

[mkamp1515]

OK. Phosphates still high (2000-2500):mad: . But my pressure on my filter is up only a little. I thought it would go up much higher...but it jumped from 17psi to 22psi and back down to about 19psi over a 6 hour period. I guess since I just cleaned the filter out, washed off all the DE off the grids, and replaced the DE is why my pressure is not just climbing and climbing. My new numbers are this:

FC and TC 3.0
pH 8.0 (a little high)
TA 70 (a little low)
Cal Hard 160
CYA 40

The guy at Leslie's told me it would take a week or two for the Phosphates to clear. He also indicated I should add Alk increaser and then acid to bring up my TA and lower my pH. Does this seem like good advice? I do use the Jack's Purple Stuff weekly to keep scale from forming. Seems to have worked so far as I have consistent high pH and I am always adding acid (SWG and Pebble Tec-1 yr old). Any thoughts??:confused:

[bassadict69]

I forget just how much the Phos free will drop your phosphates but it isn't much at all compared to a high 2500ppb reading. It would take MANY treatments to get it down like that.

[mkamp1515]

Well, finally got the phosphates down to a more acceptable level. Still a little more to go as they are in the 300-500 range. It has taken two 3 liter bottles and a 2 liter bottle of PhosFree to take care of this. So, you are talking over $100 bucks and 10-14 days of running the pump way more than usual (been averaging 12-15 hours a day). So my electric bill will spike a little as well. However, the water is clear as a bell.:) So, if you ever get a phosphate level of at least 2500, you will need to spend a little money and have some patience.

Mike

[cwstnsko]

My experience was different. My pool is 13,500 gallon IG, and my phosphates tested at 2500+. 4 days after the 1st 2l bottle of phos-free, I was down to 300-500. I added a bottle of salt-water magic, and it's now down to 100-200. Did you leave the pho-free in the filter long enough? My bottle said not to back flush for at least 2 days. My filter ia a cartridge, so the phos free will be in there until the next time I service it, which may be a while. I did not see a pressure rise from the phos-free

On thing worth mentioning was that I held the pH at 7.2-7.4 during the treatment and I shocked to 20 ppm Cl to kill the algae at the same time.

[mkamp1515]

Yeah...I left it in for at least as long as the instructions indicated. I have no phosphate now. I found my culprit...Jack's Magic Purple Stuff. Used to help prevent scale and is a metal sequesterant (sp?). Works great, just has phosphonic acid in it. If used per the bottle instructions, your phosphate level will skyrocket. I stopped using it and poof, no more phosphates after the last treatment.

[waterbear]

Bottom line...phosphates are NOT a problem unless you a have repeated algae blooms that cannot be dealt with. If phosphates are not the limiting factor in algae growth then the level is unimportant!

[CarlD]

Mkamp:
Your problem is you have been convinced to use all these chemicals you don't need that are expensive and cause problems. You shouldn't have been using either.

99.9% of all pool problems can be cured with Bleach, Borax, Baking Soda, Muriatic Acid and Cyanuric Acid. Toss in ascorbic acid for some stains and you're done.

All these other chemicals are ONLY after you have used our methods of pool care and you STILL have problems.

[waterbear]

mkamp1515,
Read my post in another thread about phosphate levels in my pool!
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showpost.php?p=30327&postcount=10

I am a prime candidate for algae problems if you believe the phosphate pushers!:eek: Look at my avitar and see how clear my pool is!:D

[aylad]

I would use acid to lower your pH first, then add baking soda to raise your alk without raising the pH back up. If you do it the other way around, you'll raise the alk but then lower it again when you add the acid.

And yes, it's Arm & Hammer baking soda--the exact same ingredient as alkalinity up, at 1/5 the price.

I'd stop worrying about the phosphates--once you properly chlorinate your pool, it doesn't sound like algae is going to be a problem for you.

Janet

[jenpen400]

Pool store said my phosphates were over 1000 last year I'm sure they are higher now just watch the clorine. I haven't had any problems everyone who sees the pool want's to know how I keep it so clear and I point my bleach bottles.

jennifer

[mkamp1515]

You are right. I was lured in to buy chemicals I really do not need. I have stopped using them and just kept my chlorine level according to Ben's chart and so far my pool has not looked better. I use baking soda to raise the Alk and muratic acid to lower the pH and that is about it. I did have to raise my CYA recently right before I went on vacation for a week as I was losing my chlorine quickly (was very hot that week 105 degrees everyday). I did throw in a 1 lb bag of shock the day before I left and when I got back home the chlorine level was still between 5-10 which is in line with my CYA level (70-80).

Thanks for the advice.