Introduction & Quick Question

[Scarfie]

New to the forum and wanted to get this first post out of the way...

We live in Ringgold, GA and are in the market to buy an AG pool. Still doing some homework and this looks like a great place to do it. Trying to make some final decisions on filter type (sand/filter), mineral system (yes or no), and pool vacuum (robot or no).

Looking forward to learning lots!

Scarfie

[Watermom]

Hi and welcome to the forum. You'll get lots of opinions about what is best. i'll offer mine and then other will come along and offer theirs.

DE filters give the best filtration but are not as easy to maintain as a sand filter. Cartridge filters also filter well but are a pain in the patootie for most people to clean. Sand filters don't filter quite as well but are by far the easiest. I have sand, as do all of the other mods, and none of us has any issues with water clarity. Sand filters do a very adequate job. And, you can actually throw just a little DE in them and they will filter about as well as a DE filter. And, when it comes to backwashing, etc., all it takes is a quick couple of turns of the handle and about 2 minutes and you're done. That is certainly not true of DE and cartridges.

Mineral system is a BIG BIG NO!!! Don't do it.

Pool vacuum -- manual and robotic both have their place. I have both and use both at various times. A manual does the best job and is the fastest but it is also nice to be able to throw my Wanda the Whale in the pool a few hours before I plan to use it and it gets clean with no effort from me. I also have a Polaris 65 which is good for picking up twigs and leaves but not so good at getting dirt and dust, so I only use it early spring and then in the fall when there is lots of crud falling from the trees. Otherwise, I use the other two.

Look around the forum and you'll learn lots. Also, read at our sister site www.poolsolutions.com as there is also great information there as well. Glad to have you here on the forum. Hope you enjoy being a part of it!

[Scarfie]

Thanks for the reply watermom... good info. Signed off to read more of the forums. Will consider membership to beat these restrictions... gotta hate spammers. Creative solution you have going to beat those rascals.

RE: Sand. Pool guys push cartridges as lower maintenance & ~4yr replacements. Sounds like sand is cheaper and still a good way to go. Arguments they made against sand was excessive water/chem loss during backwash. Sounds like that's part of the sales pitch & savings are to be had via BBB method.

RE: BBB method. Assuming chlorine system, just start with BBB method anytime? Guess I need to read that page again... seems like there might be more detail about "jumping in" or am I just making this too hard?

Thanks again for your feedback.

Scarfie

[PoolDoc]

The main problem with sand is that on AG pools, builders almost invariably size the pump too large and the filter too small. With DE and cartridge filters, this may damage the filter, but you still get effective filtration. With sand filters, you end up pushing the dirt through the filter. If you choose sand, once you elect a pool size and brands, let me size your filter for you.

We *constantly* deal with folks with AG pools they can't get clear because of undersized sand filters.

Ben

PS. I hope you and yours weren't affected too much by the tornado, though I guess your kids have been.

[Scarfie]

Thanks Ben. We live on Salem Valley Rd across the ridge from Cherokee Valley Rd. Watched that monster pass through the valley & hope we never see another. We lost some trees and a few shingles, but nothing to complain about. Kids actually go to school at East Hamilton, so they weren't impacted.

We're going for either a 27' or 30' AG round. We are looking at the Cypress (lifetime warranty, not prorated, on pool parts) available at the Pool Place in Chattanooga. Wanted something that would stand a chance against my kids jumping out over/sitting on the sides. If you have any other suggestions, I'd sure welcome your input.

[PoolDoc]

Glad the impact of the tornado was small on your family!

I'm afraid I can't make any informed recommendations about AG pool durability, so no help from me, there.

Ben

[Scarfie]

Ben;

How about a recommendation on the filter & pump size? Thanks!

[madwil]

Scarfie, I'm sure Ben will give you a recommendation when he's able- but my 2 cents is BIGGER is better for the filter, but not the pump!
I use sand, but plenty of others use DE and cartridge filters- all will work, if pump is sized right. it's almost impossible for filter to be to big!

[PoolDoc]

Depends on your budget and preferences.

If it were me, on an not too tight budget, I'd probably go with a 2-speed Super pump and an oversized DE filter, like the StaRite S7D75 or even an S8D100, and plan to clean it manually 1x per year (very dirty job -- old clothes, warm weather, shower after). Running on low, except when vacuuming or backwashing, would mean excellent 24/7 circulation AND very low electrical costs.

10 years ago, I would have picked the same pump, but with a 30" Pentair (PacFab) 30" sand filter. Probably have to do a 5 minute backwash 2x month.

Of course, any pool salesman worth his salt is going to tell you that that's an old school pump that's low tech and that there are much higher tech 'green' pumps. But, if you ask him to show the difference in watts per gallon pumped, you'll stump him. Also, "old school and still made" tends to equal very reliable. And the Super Pump is ideal in this area where summer thunderstorms mean you'll often have to open the pump and clean the strainer basket.

Assuming 27' x 52" pool => 13.5^2 x 3.14 x 4 water depth x 7.5 gallon per cft = ~17,000 gallons with a 6 hr rate of 47 GPM
Sand filter size at 12GPM per sft of sand surface = 4sft -- a 24" filter has 1 x 1 x 3.14 sft; a 30" filter has 1.25 x 1.25 x 3.14 = 4.9 which is preferable
Effective backwash rate is 15 GPM / sft so pump needs to be able to deliver 70 GPM during backwash, which will not be a problem IF you make sure that you have at least 2 skimmers. They can each be 1.5" piping, but need to step up to 2" piping BEFORE they join together. Also the backwash line needs to be 2".

So, here's a selection:

PUMP => SP2610X152S
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-842/Hayward-Super-Pump-2-dsh-speed/Detail.bok

SAND FILTER
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-1500/Pentair-Triton-II-Fiberglass/Detail.bok
VALVE
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-263/Hayward-2%22-Vari-dsh-Flo-Multi-dsh-Port/Detail.bok

DE FILTER
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-1511/Sta-dsh-Rite-System-3-DE/Detail.bok
VALVE
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-327/Sta-dsh-Rite-Multiport-Multi-dsh-port-Backwash/Detail.bok

These are not cheap setups, but it will be very low cost to operate, and give very high quality water, as well as very fast cleanup if (when?) there's a water problem. With both, you'll simply leave the pump toggled to low, except when backwashing, vacuuming, or cleaning up a mess.

Here's the pump performance info (you'll be running ~30 GPM on low (1/6 the wattage!) and ~65 on high:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qdBhHzIS4Mo/TfY_jaVCIwI/AAAAAAAAANk/PMZ1YQNhR6Q/s800/superpump_perfdata.gif

A couple of cautions -- if you decide to go that way, be sure your electrician sets up a 240V circuit; the 2 speed model is 240V only. This is an IG pump so it doesn't come with a cord, but you can have him make one with a 12-3 25' outdoor extension cord. You cut both ends off, wire one to the pump and put a 240V outdoor plug on the other.

Also, this pump has REALLY high suction (good vacuuming, etc) - do NOT even THINK about installing it on a single skimmer. With one skimmer, the pump running on high would literally tear meat off your hand if you tried to block the port at the bottom with your hand. Even with two skimers, don't let kids play down inside the skimmer! And do NOT place valves ahead of the suction junction in a way that allows you to operate with just one skimmer. One skimmer limits the suction the other can produce.

Finally, though I've purchased from A1 myself, I'm not specifically recommending them.

Ben

PS. One more thing: do NOT set the pump down in the mud under your pool deck. Get some patio blocks and get it up out of the much, where it's dryer and ventilated.

[Scarfie]

Much thanks for the detailed info! How far apart/where would the two skimmers be located?

[Scarfie]

Ben;

Great bit of info on the pump & filters. Thanks! If I follow your math correctly, following would be what I need for a 30’ AG pool (please correct me if I messed this up).

30’ x 54” pool: 15^2 x 3.14 x 4 x 7.5 = 21,195 gallons w/6 hr rate of 59 GPM (44 GPM @ 8hr rate)

It would seem if I went with an 8hr recirculation rate, I could stick with the pump you specified. If I need a 6 hr rate, does that push me into the SP2615X202S? Not sure I completely understand the “art” of reading the performance specs for that pump.

Some remaining questions...
• 30” filter still appears adequately sized for a 30’ pool, correct?
• Any reason not to make all piping 2” sch40 PVC and call it done?
• What is the “watts per gallon” rating for the SP2610X152S?
• How do I place/locate 2 skimmers (opposite sides of pool, within 5/10/15 of each other, etc)?

Thanks again for your help!