Help !!!!!!!!!

[eddman]

This is a folow up to a post I had about TA.

Earlier this week I had been fighting an sudden uncommon cause algae bloom. On 06/08 I applied a cooper algaecide and shocked the pool. The next day the algae was killed off so I shocked again and applied a drop out. On friday 06/10 I vacced to waste, backwashed filter then added 2 gals of 6% bleach and 2lbs 65% cal hypo.
Earlier today I had the following readings:
FC 0
TC 1
pH 7.2
TA 150
TH 280
CYA 30

Tonight at 8pm I added 1218 oz/9.5 gals of 6% bleach.
At 10:30 pm I checked levels and they are as follows:
FC 0
TC 1
pH 7.2
TA 150
TH 280
CYA 30

Or the same as before the bleach except no FC .

What gives. According to all the pool calculators and such the FC should have been in the 12 - 14 ppm range. Was it too early to check...help...or am I just stressing over nothing or is there a problem I do not understand?

[madwil]

assuming that your pump was running, the bleach should have been readable.
Since it wasn't, 1 of 2 things
1- the test wasn't right; If your added more bleach than intended, the color can bleach out and show 0 even though it's 15+! 9 gallons of bleach addes 45 ppm FC in 10k gallons... how big is your pool? that much bleach would add 20+ to my pool! (26k gallons)
2- something is eating the chlorine- algae, ammonia (the algaecide could have had ammonia with the copper maybe?), etc...

Try the test again, diluting the pool water. if your pool is 10k gallons, use 9 parts clean water (distilled/RO, not tap) and 1 part pool, and see if you read FC... If still no color change at all, try with 4 parts clean water and 1 part pool water. The first gives a factor of 10, so reading 3-4 would really show 30-40 in pool. the second will give factor of 5, so reading of 3-4 would be 15-20... both these scenarios would possibly bleach out some tests.

[eddman]

My Bad

I think I found the problem with the FC/TC. I have had major algae problems this year and fighting them on and off. Several weeks before using the copper algaecide after unsucessful use of polyquats I had applied a different algaecide which turns out to have been a sodium bromide.

My NEW question now is how long is it going to take to get the this worked out of the water and what do I need to do to expedite the process if anything. I wish the manufacturer/distributor had been more diligent in supplying info on the imapct of sodium bromide to chlorine upkeep.

Thanks for all the help..maybe someone can show me a light at the end of the tunnel..........

[Watermom]

Since you have used sodium bromide, I'm going to ask Ben to take a look at your problem. He has more experience dealing with bromide.

[PoolDoc]

Hi Eddman;

You may have a sodium bromide problem -- but that's not the cause of your low chlorine reading, not when you added chlorine at 8pm and tested at 1030pm. Adding bromine increases loss to sunlight, but not otherwise.

How are you testing? Your results look bogus in a couple of ways.

Ben

[eddman]

hmm don't know what to say.

I am using drop/titrate test to check everything except for FC which I am just using a strip.

I am doing the readings twice daily and getting similar results everytime...

If I can i will pull a fresh sample tomorrow and take it elsewhere to see what they are getting for results and post them.

In regards to the sunlight the pool is inddors under a clear roof which blocks about 90% UV will still allowing light...

The pool is an inground 20 X 40 about 41,000 gal with a correct size pump and sand filter.

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

[PoolDoc]

OK.

Let's do this.


Buy a cheap OTO (yellow drops) chlorine test. On your pool, an 10 gallon dose of *plain* 6% household bleach will be about 15 ppm chlorine.
Add 10 gallons within 2 hours of sunset; test 1 hour later, again within 2 hours of sunrise, and again that evening.

The first test will verify your test method; the 2nd will see if you have a chlorine demand apart from sunlight, and the third will check to see if you really are blocking 90% of the UV.

Plus, 15 ppm is enough to do some good with your algae, if your CYA test results are correct.

Ben

PS. Consider getting a DPD-FAS testkit. It would make it much easier to tell what's going on, because it is the ONLY way to accurately measure chlorine levels in the 0 - 20 ppm range. (Link to Amazon sold kits below; wait a day if "Amato Ind" is not the seller; other Amazon sellers sometimes confuse the K2006 with the non-FAS-DPD K2005)

[eddman]

Ben

I am using the OTO (yellow drop) test and just purchased a fresh bottle when I had posted the latest results. And the 9.5 gals I applied the other night was tested with the OTO test. The test kit I have been using is similar to the DPD-FAs kit. It is from HTH (HTH 6 way Test Kit) and test for TC/TB, pH, TA, TH, and CYA. As said I just purchased a fresh bottle of OTO.

The algae is no longer an issue, it is all gone - been 4+ days with no sign, other then some residual debris that I vac when spotted...

I can do the bleach again..

You said 10 gal, is 9.5 good, I get best value on 6% plain bleach in 1.35 gal jugs and 7 jugs gives me that.

I'll post my results as indicated.

Edd

[Watermom]

I wouldn't think that 9.5 vs. 10 would make much difference so that should be fine.

[eddman]

To all

A correction on pool gasllonage. I was suing 41,00 as provided me by previous owner and just seemd off so I did some measurements and ran a calc and the gallonage is more like 36000. Not sure how much difference it will make just wanted to be clear and up to date with info.

Other things:

Just had a water sample tested at local supply store. I had the sample, puled at 9:45 am, to them within 10 minutes of taking it so should not have had much effect on test. They used some multiple vial(8-9) sealed vial test where they pipetted water from sample then did computer, apparently color analysis. They used 36000 gallons for size but a temp of 70 when actually it is more like 90. Anyhow here are there results (verbatim):
FC 0.2 ppm
TC 1.7 ppm
CC 1.4 ppm
pH 7.6
Hardness 250 ppm
Alkalinity (w/stabilizer correction) 101 ppm
Cyanuric Acid 30 ppm
Cooper 0 ppm
Iron 0 ppm

[madwil]

well, some good news- your CYA is ok, as is the hardness and alk...
Just need to work on the chlorine, and maintain pH!
Also good no metals!

[PoolDoc]

OK.

Low stabilizer; high CC, though I don't fully trust those values. I'd be more comfortable if I was looking at readings from an FAS-DPD kit. It's much more accurate than your dealer's 'goofy strips' plus electronic reader*. The Taylor K2006 is probably the cheapest; Amazon link below (purchase only if the seller is "Amato Ind" -- some of the others confuse the K2006 with the K2005).

Anyhow, the way to remove the bromide -- according to Jock Hamilton who started United Chem -- is repeated shocks + sunlight. So, repeat your bleach doses nightly. That should be enough to eliminate any lingering algae and clean up the CC's. Hopefully, it will also convert the bromide to bromate.

By the way, the chlorine drop during the day, suggests your cover isn't blocking as much UV as you thought. It's something to check -- you may need more stabilizer than you thought, too. If you get the FAS-DPD kit, you can find out.

Meanwhile, you need to think about how you want to operate your pool -- low CYA; high CYA, or salt.

Is this your first year with the pool? How have you done it before?

Ben


* All those decimals in your dealer's results are normally bogus. You can check this for yourself, by collecting two samples at the same time, and telling your dealer that you've been losing chlorine overnight, but need a more accurate measurement of how much. (True; it's what the FAS-DPD test is for.) So you have two samples collected from the same pool, but at different times that you need tested. (Also true; just don't tell the dealer the two times were only a minute apart!). Typically, you'll see widely varying results from the same water sample.

[eddman]

Appreciate all the advise and will do the shock.

This is 3rd year with pool and normally just chlorine (bleach/ di-chlor/tri-chlor) and shock as needed.

this year started out with nasty algae bllom as there were issues related to potential leak and couldn't run system, just dump chlorine..too long a story.

I 'll post follow up soon.

[eddman]

Just wanted to tell everyone I have been following the advise and last night I shocked the pool with 942 oz of 6% bleach and an hour later I had FC well in excess of 5ppm and FC >10. Checked again this morning and same readings. Now if it holds high till this evening all will be good.

[CarlD]

"I had FC well in excess of 5ppm and FC >10"

I don't know what this means. Is FC in excess of 5ppm or greater than 10ppm?

Car