Hello Pool People

[Cloud26]

I have been reading for about a week and have a similar thinking about chemicals and stores. I grew up with a 20x40 inground and currently have a 25 ft AG pool. I have always monitored the chlorine and ph, and use very little from the pool stores so the BBB method is a good fit for me. I do have some questions:

Facts about my pool
1) pretty much full sun
2) I never cover my pool (to much wind... cover last about 3 months) so I have a lot of leaves every opening
3) Using WM chlorine w/Bleach (3 gallon)
4) have used approx 30 lbs of baking soda
5) Have used 12 bgs of WM shock to go from brown/green to cloudy blue
6) Using a 4 test drop kit
7) wanting to move to the Intex SWG, but need to get chemicals stabilized
8) pump runs 24hrs/day

Mon/Tues --- Chlorine was good 2.0, PH low 6.8 or lower
Wed/Thur --- Chlorine was .6, Ph 7.8

I know I need to test for other things, but these are what I'm monitoring now.

Question-

Could the Bleach and Chlorine be battling each other?
I have just now found Borax (sold out everywhere) since my PH is OK should I still add some now


Thanks

[CarlD]

Hi, and welcome, Cloud.
Bleach IS chlorine, and no, once in the water it doesn't "battle" other forms of chlorination.
In the water all chlorine is chlorine. But different forms have side effects, NONE of which have anything to do with chlorine itself.
So I'm not sure what the WalMart "Shock" is, but I'm going to guess it's 48% Calcium Hypochlorite--"Cal-Hypo". The other alternative is that it's Di-Chlor.
Here's a quickie rundown on the common Chlorine forms. Once in the water, the chlorine they deliver is all the same.
1) Tri-Chlor. Typically 3" or 1" tablets that dissolve slowly and go in floaters or in-line chlorinators. In addition to chlorine, they are VERY acidic, lower pH a lot and are, by definition, "Stabilized", meaning they add Cyanuric Acid, aka, Stabilizer, Conditioner, Balancer or just CYA to your water. Occasionally sold as a powder.
2) Di-Chlor. A powdered form similar to Tri-Chlor. It is not acidic BUT for various reasons it will lower your pH, but not as much as Tri-Chlor. It is also "stabilized" and adds CYA to your water in large amounts as well.
3) Cal-Hypo. Mainly sold in powdered for as the tablets have myriad problems. It can be in 48%, 62%, 68% or even 72% strength. Frequently sold as "Shock". Cal-Hypo is a non-stabilized form of chlorine, so it adds no CYA to your water. It usually raises pH somewhat, but adds calcium into your water. Since you have a vinyl pool, calcium is useless, but harmless unless it gets too high. Then it can cause scaling on metal and make your water go milky.
4) Bleach. Sold in pool stores as "Liquid Chlorine" or "Liquid Shock". Ordinary bleach is 5.25% concentrate, and Ultra is 6%. Pool store Liquid Chlorine (LC)can be 6%, in which case it is IDENTICAL to ultra bleach, 10%, or 12.5%. The strong stuff, 12.5%, is LC if it's sold in blue 5 gallon drums, "Liquid Shock" if it's sold in gallon jugs. It's all Sodium Hypochlorite, a chlorine concentrate. Bleach/LC adds nothing to your water besides chlorine (maybe a little salt). It doesn't drive pH up or down, doesn't add stabilizer or calcium and it gets into the water FAST! It's biggest drawback is its bulk.
5) other less used or commercial chlorines: Lithium Hypochlorite. This stuff is worth its weight in gold. It must because it COSTS its weight in gold! Actually, it's an expensive waste of money. Gas chlorine. This MUST be done by professionals and is usually used in large pools. I know little about it.

I suggest you start by going to the sister site, PoolSolutions.com and reading the tips and articles there. Pretty much everything we'll tell you here is there in easy-to-read and find formats.
Then start reading the stickied posts here in the various forums.

One last note. The Intex SWG is probably too small for your pool. I think it's max is 11,000 gallons and at that it's going to work hard and probably not last too many seasons. BTW, Salt Generation is NOT an alternative to chlorine. It IS chlorine and is totally compatible with the other forms above.

Carl

[Watermom]

We really need to know all the testing numbers. Can you please post the CYA, alk and CH in addition to current pH and cl readings if those that you posted are more than a few hours old.

Welcome to the forum!

[Cloud26]

Thanks for the Chlorine explanation. I am just confused as to how it went from OK to none in one day (92 degree day)

CYA - I'm not sure my test kit does this. I looked up the one that is being recommended and will add it to the list of things to purchase.

I will do an ALK test and post the results later this evening.

I was always told not to test pool in the middle of the day.... any truth to this?

[Watermom]

It doesn't really hurt to test in the middle of the day, but it is best to add chlorine in the evening. Is there a reputable pool store near you that can test your CYA level for you? Just don't let them talk you into buying a bunch of stuff.

[PoolDoc]

. . . a caution about the Intex: apparently the only unit now available is a combo SWCG + copper unit.

Ben

[Cloud26]

Ben,

Why is the copper bad?

[Watermom]

Contrary to popular belief, it is not chlorine that turns blonde hair green, it is copper!

[aylad]

And not only can it turn hair green, as Watermom said, but it can also stain the walls of your pool green and create a whole new set of problems with your water chemistry.

Janet

[Cloud26]

I got my pool tested at the local store and I did buy some product from them. I know that is not the popular thing to do, but I had my reasons. My Pool was still GREEN and eating chlorine like candy.

Here's my numbers
CYA - 94
Total Chlorine - .4
Free Chlorine - 0
PH 8.4
Tot Alk - 211
Adj Total Alk - 183
Hardness - 127

I think all I really needed to buy was shock, but I was sold other products. 3.75 pnds of Lo'N Slo and 2 bgs of Smart Shock and Inhibit and the pool is back to cloudy. It is Monday and I just tested it with my little test kit and the chlorine is 3.2 and the PH is 7.8. Am I on the right track?

[aylad]

With your CYA that high, the only way to get rid of the green is to shock the pool up to 25 ppm and hold it there until the pool clears up. Whatever form of chlorine you use is fine, except that I wouldn't use anything else with stabilizer in it....we really recommend plain, unscented bleach or liquid chlorine, as Yeggim suggested. The Polyquat isn't going to do much for you now, but you can use the dry acid to lower the pH til it's between 7.0 and 8.0 (do that before shocking the pool, because you'l get falsely high pH readings with very high chlorine levels).

I agree with Yeggim to not use the copper--we've already talked about why.

Janet

[Cloud26]

I had been using 6% bleach (about a gallon a day) thinking it would act as a shock and I wasn't getting anywhere. What will be different this time? My PH is 7.8 so I think it is good. The pool is not green it's just cloudy. I can only see about 8in down. I'm just vacumming and back washing.

[Watermom]

"Shock" means to superchlorinate to high levels. "Shock" is not a product. You can use any form of chlorine to "shock" a pool except trichlor pucks. As long as you add enough to raise the cl to the appropriate level based on your CYA reading, you are "shocking" the pool. Perhaps you aren't adding a large enough dose of bleach at a time to reach shock level.
If you haven't already done so, take a look at the Best Guess table in my signature below.