White hard buildup on vinyl liner

[reddolphin]

Our pool set for two years before we started it back up last summer, at which time it had a hard white build up.

This year, there is more. From what I have read, this is likely calcium build up. I am looking for the best way to remove this. Some of it is stained green.

We bought a salt water system this year. Opened up the pool, pool was all clean. Would attempt to vacuum and the return was returning green, murky water. Let it set for a few days, pool return semi clear.

I got fed up putting money into and told husband to drain and we'd clean and start over. It is currently pretty much empty, so no test kit readings to report.

Would love to be able to clean the bulid up off the walls (which is also stained green in spots) before we refill this weekend.

Any tips? I've read to not use chemicals, but the BBB method. I will read that again and try to understand it a little more. It seems like we are pouring too much money into this pool in the way of chemicals, chlorine, etc.

Any tips would be appreciated.

[reddolphin]

I should have included that this is a 24 ft above ground pool. Not sure of brand but is not an intex easy set. It is metal sided.

[PoolDoc]

Acid is very hard on vinyl liners, and in any case, I'm not sure what's there.

If it's calcium carbonate, it should bubble or fizz slowly if you pour vinegar on it. Can you do that?

After you do, sprinkle some baking soda till it stops fizzing, and then rinse that away. Even vinegar is low enough in pH to damage a liner over time.

Ben

[reddolphin]

It did not bubble with just vinegar. After putting baking soda on it, it did not wipe off. With my nails I can scrap it off after putting those two on it. It feels and looks like dried sand.

[waste]

Welcome to the Forum!

From your description, it sure sounds like calcium (with a little algae for the green). Calcium should react to acid and fizz (like Ben said).

I've got a thought, but I'm not sure it would be safe for the liner, so I'm leery of mentioning it. Replacing the liner would take this issue out of the picture, but I don't know if your finances allow for that. If they do, you can try what I'm thinking of and, if it wrecks the liner, you were ready to get one anyway.

I'm sorry that this post is pretty much 'non helpful'

[reddolphin]

We are hoping we can get one more year from this liner. Thinking a stiffer brush would maybe take it off after using the vinegar and soda. I put vinegar on then rubbed soda on it. Is there a better way to apply the two?

[PoolDoc]

If you can scrape a bit off, and put it in a glass with vinegar overnight, that would tell us whether it's calcium carbonate based -- it will dissolve overnight if it is. I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but can you go ahead and send me some pictures? (Send to poolforum AT gmail DOT com)

If it's what I think, you can go ahead and refill, and start your pool. I can help you get rid of it over the next few weeks, without damaging your pool. You do NOT want to use a heavy brush, or acid, on a vinyl liner.

Ben

[reddolphin]

My husband tried to flake some off, it doesn't come off in large flakes, large granules of sand like stuff. will get pics tomorrow of the pool.

Now, some info that my husband just told me......

--pH is always way high, never seems to be able to get it below 7.6. I know we go through a lot of ph minus.
--Using test strips that came with the saltwater system, the TA is gray, which is not on the strip. He is assuming his TA is way high

Also, we are in the country and use well water, if that is any help.

I thought about cleaning the rest of the bottom and refilling it tomorrow evening and start new.

Is there a step by step guide on how to start your pool up and get it going the right way, without using all the unneeded chemicals?

We do have a saltwater system, just got this year. We use water softener pellets for the salt.

I want to thank all for the help. Truly appreciated. Any questions, just ask.

[PoolDoc]

small granules are fine -- just put some in a clear glass and add vinegar, and leave it overnight. We really need to establish what the granules are, b4 you refill.

It would be a good idea to seal the glass with Saran-type wrap.

[reddolphin]

It did not dissolve in the vinegar.

And I had already went to bed so did not get the message to cover it.

[reddolphin]

Update got some bigger flakes off and they fizzes in vinegar and dissolved leaving nasty green stuff left. When putting some in water it turned water green but did not dissolve.

[reddolphin]

Ben-

My husband said you were going to post some pics and some instructions. Will that be on this thread or a new one? The pool is about half way full. Will continue filling today. We are on a shared well, so we can run nonstop overnight, but during day, we run for a few hours at a time so the neighbors don't complain.

[PoolDoc]

Yeah. I'm going to post it here. I ran out of time yesterday, and am supposed to be gone most of the day today.

But, keep filling and
#1 - Keep your pH low-ish => 7.0 - 7.2 . Add small doses of acid to maintain this. I told your husband how to use muriatic (plastic gloves, glasses, avoid splatters by partially submerging the jug before pouring, watch the fumes, 1 quart doses).
#2 - Do NOT add any calcium, alkalinity, baking soda, washing soda, hardness . . . NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELLS YOU.
#3 - If your pH gets too low, add a little borax. (1 box doses, added SLOWLY via the skimmer with the pump on)

Run your pump 24/7.

Lemme know when your pool is full and your pump is on.

Ben

[reddolphin]

Thank you so much!

Was he to pour 2 gal of bleach in once it is full, too?

[madwil]

yes- keep the chlorine levels normal; that will sanitize the pool at the same time the other crap is being taken care of- the chlorine shouldn't drastically affect the other stuff dissolving...

[reddolphin]

Pool has been up and running since last evening.

We put 2 gallons of bleach in this morning, chlorine is testing as not having any. Should we keep putting bleach in or can we use the saltwater chlorine generator?

Also, put 2 gallons of muriatric acid in it, Ph is now testing between 6.8 and 7.2 on the test kit, closer to 6.8. Should we go ahead and add a little borax or not yet?

If we test the total alkalinity correctly, it is 190?

[reddolphin]

Also, do we need to wait for all this to dissolve before using it?

[PoolDoc]

Not at all! Swim away.

Sorry I haven't posted the pics and explanation yet -- will do so today.

Meanwhile, go ahead and treat the pool. You can use bleach + stabilizer OR use dichlor. Sams has 50# of diclor for about $110, which should last you through the winter. Ideally, you'll get a DPD-FAS Taylor kit, so you can manage high chlorine, stabilizer AND work on your high TA. Regardless, you need to be adding a gallon of bleach each PM till you get the pool stabilized.

Regarding pH & alkalinity, you'll need quite a bit of muriatic acid. I'll explain more later, but for now, what you need to do is lower the pH to 6.8 and then LET IT RISE BY ITSELF. You can accelerate the process by adjusting the pool return eyeball so it 'ruffles' the water's surface.

Ben

[reddolphin]

I deeply appreciate all your help. Loved the new thread, will be interesting to see what other's experiences are.

[BigDave]

reddolphin,
I noticed you said you use water softener pellets. This is for salt in the pool for your SWCG? I've noticed that some of the pellets have other stuff (features) besides NaCl. Unless someone here says I'm wrong (and I may be) I would avoid using specialty pellets ( especially if the label lists other non-salt stuff ) and stick with just water softener salt ( rock salt for driveways has lots of dirt and rocks and other icky junk I wouldn't want to swim with ).

[reddolphin]

Yes, the water softener pellets were for the salt in the SWCG. This is the first year we've had it. The build up has been going since last year though. I could be wrong, and I will ask my husband if it was water softener pellets or salt that he used. It was in the lawn and garden, next to the pool salt. These were a few bucks cheaper, so went that way.


We swam in the pool today.......was awesome. The stuff is starting to come off the sides. It is leaving behind some green yucky stuff like it did when it dissolved in the glass. The stuff that is left on there is not as rough/hard feeling as it was before.

[PoolDoc]

Well, after promising to do so, it looks like I never got back to this thread. Anyhow, it was sand algae, and did come off once the pH was low enough. Here are the pics I was supposed to post:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jFKM7sPCtHg/T1QPFIA3tpI/AAAAAAAABk0/nIo7iQ5LoUI/s800/IMG_2544-ed.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZKn0dz6kclw/T1QPFZd-20I/AAAAAAAABk8/jPf6l4hKluc/s800/IMG_2545-ed.jpg

and, here's my thread about my own experiences with this stuff:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?12111-Sand-Algae