Using the K-2006

[Manslick]

I picked up this kit today. Rushed home and took a water sample. Sat down and opened the kit.

The FC test. Stumped from the gate.

The yellow instructions confused me.
It says:
For 1 drop = 0.2 ppm, use 25mL sample.
For 1 drop = 0.5 ppm, use 10mL sample.

I used the 25mL sample but I think the 10mL would have saved me some indicator.

How do I know which sample size to use?

I only tested for FC, CC, PH and CYA because to be honest, it is way more complex than I expected.

I am reading the guide and I understand the SI should equal 0, but without the TA and CH tests I can't know that yet. Maybe tomorrow.

My numbers look good
FC=5.6
CC=0
PH=7.4
CYA=42

The CYA, good lord - I could be off 8 to 10 points with that thing.
Any tips on doing that test?

So now what. In the past I used chlorine tabs in a floater but from reading this board I am tempted to go with bleach. Fear of the unknown has me in its grip.
Bleach pros and cons?
Advice appreciated. :)

[Watermom]

You'll get the hang of that kit after a few days.

You are right that using a 10ml water sample will save your indicator. It will give you a reading within 0.5ppm which is plenty accurate enough.

The CYA test is the most difficult to read. Do the test in natural light. Hold the tester waist high as you pour the solution into the test vial. Slowly add it until you cannot see the black dot. Don't test CYA too often. There is only enough solution for about 4 tests I think. If you think your CYA is about 42, then you should not use the trichlor pucks in a floater. Your level is good right where it is. Stick with bleach. It is cheap, readily available everywhere, won't add any more CYA and won't cloud your water. Cons -- bleach bottles to take to the recycling center. You can't go wrong using bleach.

Don't worry about the SI.

[waste]

I don't see an alk reading, while calcium isn't important to your liner pool, you do want to test the alkalinity.

Call me cheep but, I test the cl with the 10 ml (1 drop = .5 ppm) to save my reagents - it's close enough for day to day testing (I'll only do the 25 ml test if I'm battling something and need that precision.)

For alk and hardness, I use the 25 ml test until it has 'stabilized' and then I use the 10 ml alternative test (1 drop = 25) to insure that I'm still where I was. The cya test can't be done with less reagent, so I'd only do it if you had lost a lot of water or had added more the week before. (BTW - Mom, I get ~6 3/4 tests out of 2 .75 oz bottles in the K2005/6 kit :) )

[AnnaK]

Don't worry too much about being off on the CYA test. The whole thing is a range, anyway. You're good between 30 and 50 ppm. You're marginally okay even at 70 ppm but you would be using more bleach. Sounds like your water tested right in the middle of the range so you can switch to straight bleach now and not use the pucks anymore.

Those tests will become second nature in a few days. Do the pH and the 10 ml FC/CC test daily and check your alkalinity once a week. If your pH stays steady your TA (alk) is probably okay as well.

[Manslick]

Thanks all.

On the way to work this morning it hit me that the distance from my eye to the CYA tube would be a variable in the black dot visibility.

I was sitting down outside at 5PM in the afternoon sunlight and right on top of the tube, so at waist level the tube will be 24” from my eye. I think that would tend to make the dot disappear sooner assuming my eyesight is as good from 2 feet. If true that would lower the CYA level.

I had this water tested at Leslie’s on Saturday and was told the level was 30 so I added some stabilizer since 30 being the low end got me worried.

So okay, I’m going with bleach. With a 36K gal pool, what’s the dosage? Were do you guys get yours?


Hey waste; no I did not do an alk test yesterday but I plan on it tonight.

My first test showed it to be low, so I added 5 lbs of alk up.

Hey AnnaK – nice to see some reassuring words concerning the CYA test.

[waterbear]

The Taylor website has some excellent videos (http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_choose_slideshow.asp) on how to properly use your test kit.

[Manslick]

The Taylor website has some excellent videos (http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_choose_slideshow.asp) on how to properly use your test kit.

Many thanks waterbear.

[wsommariva]

May want to use baking soda instead of alk up. Should be cheaper. And I personally stay away from pool store tests. I rely on my test kits. Also check the expiration dates on the reagents. I just buy new ones each spring.

[CarlD]

Where I live, Baking Soda is about $.80/lb, but Alk Up and similar products run up to $3/lb. What's the difference? The package and the price! Both are Sodium Bicarbonate (but the pool store version calls itself Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate--to fool you into thinking it's not the same as Bicarb...it is).

pH Up! Balance Pak 200(or is it 300?) runs at least $3/lb. It is Sodium Carbonate. Sodium Carbonate is sold as Arm&Hammer Washing Soda (in the yellow, not orange box) and costs again, about $.80/lb.

"Liquid Chlorine" is frequently sold in 6% concentrations at pool stores. It is identical to Ultra Bleach (6%). If the pool store's is cheaper per gallon, buy it. If not, don't. They also sell "Liquid Shock" which is between 10% and 12.5% concentration. Basically double the price of bleach. If it costs less than half as much per gallon, buy it. If more, then go with bleach.

It's all about labeling and pricing and trying to confuse you into paying more.

Carl

[Manslick]

May want to use baking soda instead of alk up. Should be cheaper. And I personally stay away from pool store tests. I rely on my test kits. Also check the expiration dates on the reagents. I just buy new ones each spring.

Thanks wsommariva. Where do you get your reagents?

[Manslick]

Where I live, Baking Soda is about $.80/lb, but Alk Up and similar products run up to $3/lb. What's the difference? The package and the price! Both are Sodium Bicarbonate (but the pool store version calls itself Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate--to fool you into thinking it's not the same as Bicarb...it is).

pH Up! Balance Pak 200(or is it 300?) runs at least $3/lb. It is Sodium Carbonate. Sodium Carbonate is sold as Arm&Hammer Washing Soda (in the yellow, not orange box) and costs again, about $.80/lb.

"Liquid Chlorine" is frequently sold in 6% concentrations at pool stores. It is identical to Ultra Bleach (6%). If the pool store's is cheaper per gallon, buy it. If not, don't. They also sell "Liquid Shock" which is between 10% and 12.5% concentration. Basically double the price of bleach. If it costs less than half as much per gallon, buy it. If more, then go with bleach.

It's all about labeling and pricing and trying to confuse you into paying more.

Carl

So if the pool guy says I need 5 lbs of alk up, then I buy 5 lbs of A&H? There's no fillers to worry about?

I've never used liquid chlorine so how do I figure the dosage using bleach?

Thanks Carl.

[CarlD]

If the pool store guy says add 5 lbs of Tot Alk increaser, DON'T DO IT! And, if you do, yes, use A&H Baking Soda. It's 100% sodium bicarb.

I NEVER add more than 1 lb of baking soda and I have nearly over 19,000 gallons, near 20k. With your pool, AT MOST add 2 lbs at a time.

You have 36,000 gallons. So the forumula is: (1,000,000/gallons_in_pool)*(Bleach concentration)*# of gallons of bleach.

So....(1,000,000/36,000) * .06 * 1 = 1.67. That means one gallon of 6% bleach will add 1.6ppm of free chlorine to your pool. (.06=6%)
If you use 12.5% then 1 gallon of it will add 3.5ppm of free chlorine to your pool
Bleach and Liquid Chlorine are the same stuff. Sometimes the pool stores sell it in 6% strength but also as "liquid shock" at 12.5% or in 5 gallon carboys as liquid chlorine, also 12.5%. That's what I use, and the guy I get it from turns it over so fast it usually tests at 14%.

Carl

[Watermom]

I buy generic Walmart Ultra bleach 6%.

[Manslick]

If the pool store guy says add 5 lbs of Tot Alk increaser, DON'T DO IT! And, if you do, yes, use A&H Baking Soda. It's 100% sodium bicarb.

I NEVER add more than 1 lb of baking soda and I have nearly over 19,000 gallons, near 20k. With your pool, AT MOST add 2 lbs at a time.

You have 36,000 gallons. So the forumula is: (1,000,000/gallons_in_pool)*(Bleach concentration)*# of gallons of bleach.

So....(1,000,000/36,000) * .06 * 1 = 1.67. That means one gallon of 6% bleach will add 1.6ppm of free chlorine to your pool. (.06=6%)
If you use 12.5% then 1 gallon of it will add 3.5ppm of free chlorine to your pool
Bleach and Liquid Chlorine are the same stuff. Sometimes the pool stores sell it in 6% strength but also as "liquid shock" at 12.5% or in 5 gallon carboys as liquid chlorine, also 12.5%. That's what I use, and the guy I get it from turns it over so fast it usually tests at 14%.

Carl

I understand. The dosage is determined by the water test. The number of gallons to achieve the required dosage is based on the Chlorine percentage. Brilliant!

Thanks a million – ha ha.

Now my task is to interpret the test correctly in order to know the dosage.

[Manslick]

I buy generic Walmart Ultra bleach 6%.

I can get to Walmart in 5 minutes. Well, I guess anyone could. :)

Thanks Watermom.

[AnnaK]

Now my task is to interpret the test correctly in order to know the dosage.


And to get the dosage, go to the Pool Calculator (http://poolcalculator.com). You can save this as a file to your HD or a stick and use it offline as well.

You input the volume, your test results, and your targets (goals) in ppm and it returns to you the amount of product to add. It can be adjusted for type of sanitizer, for instance 5.25% bleach or 10% bleach, and it will calculate for you the effect of adding any number of compounds. A very nifty tool, play with it a little to see what it can do for you.

With the exception of bleach, where adding too much isn't a crisis, you want to go easy when you adjust chemistry. Most of us add 1/2 to maybe 3/4 of the suggested or calculated amount, wait a while for it to mix in, and test again before adding the rest. It's a lot easier to put in more than it is to take some out :)

[CarlD]

And I've never used the Pool Calculator. The formula for bleach is easy to use and there's even a short-cut, a rule of thumb so you can do it in your head:

1 gallon of bleach adds exactly its concentration to 10,000 gallons of water
So a gallon of 6% adds 6ppm of FC to 10,000 gallons
A gallon of 12.5% adds 12.5ppm of FC to 10,000 gallons
Therefore a gallon of 6% only adds 3ppm of FC to 20,000 gallons.

For everything else I usually start with a quarter of what I think I'll need. I can always add more, much more easily.

Carl

[AnnaK]

The Pool Calculator is an excellent tool for any and all additions and/or calculations for pool maintenance. While doing bleach is easy and pretty much idiot proof, calculating baking soda or borax or muriatic acid or CYA isn't quite that simple and the PoolCalc is a huge help.

[Manslick]

AnnaK thanks for the link to the pool calculator. I love to crunch numbers and that thing looks very cool.

It's kind of funny to me that after all these years I suddenly want to be proactive instead of reactive to pool maintenance. I was on vacation last week when I opened the pool and with a little extra time on my hands I found this place. Some years I'd get lucky and some years it'd be a nightmare. Now I'm going to fix It before it breaks.

I was even thinking of catching rain and testing it and if knowing the rainfall amount and the chemistry I could head off potential problems due to rain.

I'm keeping records for the first time too hoping to spot trends and again head off potential problems.

We'll see. It feels good to know that when I do get in trouble I have a place to go for help.

[Watermom]

It feels good to know that when I do get in trouble I have a place to go for help.

You bet! We'll be right here. Glad you joined us this year!

[AnnaK]

Heh! Two days ago you were intimidated by the testing process and now you want to test rain water. It happens to all of us, that desire to test any and all water sources . Before long, you'll find yourself taking the test kit along when you go to friends' pools, to public pools, to motel pools (and you'll probably not want to get into those . . . ).

One thing you do want to test is your fill water so you know how much chlorine, TA, and calcium you start out with when you have to top off your water.

Record keeping is essential. I used to keep a notebook in the pool house; now I record test results and make notes on the iPad. Knowing the 'clean' pressure of your pump/filter is good info to have, right after cleaning the system or backwashing it. You can see trends at a glance and yes, it totally helps you be proactive.

I'm glad you find the PoolCalc helpful. Next to my WallWhale brush it's my favorite pool tool.

[Manslick]

Guilty.

I did test my tap water a long time ago and was surprised how high the PH level was.

Yeah, I got plans to do my brother’s pool.

Gett’n all in touch with my inner chemist.

[CarlD]

I keep a record too. I used to keep it on a mini-excel spreadsheet in my PDA. Now I just write it on the cover of my old PS233 in pencil and erase it at the start of the new season. I'm SO lazy I use each column twice, dividing each row into an upper and lower entry.

I never use the pool calc. I know I have 19,000 gallons, so I figure 20,000. I know if I add half a gallon of 12.5% LC it will boost my FC by about 3ppm, and a full gallon by 6ppm.
My CYA was at zero, so I chlorinated with Tri-Chlor tabs until the week that CYA finally read over 30ppm.
I checked my pH and when it was low (like 6.8, 6.9), I dumped in a box of Borax. An hour later it was still low (and my T/A was VERY low) so I dumped in a box of A&H Washing soda. My pH up to about 7.6, where it has remained constant for almost 3 weeks, despite my TA never going higher than 60ppm.

But if the Pool Calc helps you, by all means, use it.

The B-B-B method is all about sensible and logical pool maintenance so that your pool can be what it's SUPPOSED to be: A Wreck Creation facility (if you have kids you understand this!)

Carl

[AnnaK]

Thanks Carl. Yes, the Pool Calc does help me. A microbiologist by education and training I prefer precision rather than guesses. Using the Pool Calc I know just what and how much of something to add and can avoid the try-this-see-if-it-sticks method. That one works, no doubt, it's just not as cost effective as I like my pool maintenance to be.

I've been running trichlor pucks since we hooked up the equipment early in May and am now at 50 ppm. It took seven 3" pucks, not bad. no negative effect on the pH which is consistent at 7.5. I'm stocked up with LC and ready for a hot summer, starting now. It's in the mid-90s here in the Lehigh Valley. How are you doing in Jersey?

[Manslick]

I keep a record too. I used to keep it on a mini-excel spreadsheet in my PDA. Now I just write it on the cover of my old PS233 in pencil and erase it at the start of the new season. I'm SO lazy I use each column twice, dividing each row into an upper and lower entry.

I never use the pool calc. I know I have 19,000 gallons, so I figure 20,000. I know if I add half a gallon of 12.5% LC it will boost my FC by about 3ppm, and a full gallon by 6ppm.
My CYA was at zero, so I chlorinated with Tri-Chlor tabs until the week that CYA finally read over 30ppm.
I checked my pH and when it was low (like 6.8, 6.9), I dumped in a box of Borax. An hour later it was still low (and my T/A was VERY low) so I dumped in a box of A&H Washing soda. My pH up to about 7.6, where it has remained constant for almost 3 weeks, despite my TA never going higher than 60ppm.

But if the Pool Calc helps you, by all means, use it.

The B-B-B method is all about sensible and logical pool maintenance so that your pool can be what it's SUPPOSED to be: A Wreck Creation facility (if you have kids you understand this!)

Carl

Oh yea, I took that formula you gave me and put it right into a spreadsheet.

I used Annak’s pool calculator to double check my volume. Happily I’ve been quoting the right volume.

I plan to use the spreadsheet to keep a record of the test results and in time I’ll have enough data point to do all kinds of graphs.

[robbym70]

The Taylor website has some excellent videos (http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_choose_slideshow.asp) on how to properly use your test kit.

A thousand Kudos to waterbear for posting the link to the Taylor site with training vids...Received my K-2006 last week but hadn't sorted out how exactly to use it...Found this link with the vids and voila--now I know (somewhat) what I'm doing. At work now but will post later in another thread re: current levels and ask for next logical steps...

As a 1st time pool owner I can't tell you how glad I found this site before I got "pool stored"

[Manslick]

I hear you robbym. I love this site.

So, today I test again.

FC = 2.5
CC = 0
PH = 7.5
CYA = 50
TA = 100
CH = 475

The chlorine, pool calculator says need I gallon, 3 quarts, 1 cup or 236 oz of 6% bleach to bring me back to Mondays level of 5.6.

I have purchased two 90 fluid oz jugs of K-Mart brand regular bleach. The label says 6% sodium hypochlorite.
If I add both it should bring me close to my last FC test of 5.6.
Am I getting this right?

The TA and CH levels. Do I need worry about them? If so, what do I do?
Help appreciated.
TIA

[Watermom]

You are doing great! TA at 100 is fine. Your CH is high but as long as your water is not cloudy, you're ok. Just don't use any cal-hypo and don't let your TA get high. BTW - The only way to lower CH is to do a partial drain.)

[Manslick]

You are doing great! TA at 100 is fine. Your CH is high but as long as your water is not cloudy, you're ok. Just don't use any cal-hypo and don't let your TA get high. BTW - The only way to lower CH is to do a partial drain.)

Thanks again Watermom – a partial drain, hmm. I have hard water here in Louisville.
From the water company - Pure Tap®, Louisville Water Company’s tap water, is moderately hard, at 159 mg/L or 9.3 grains of calcium carbonate per gallon.
So would a partial refill actually help lower my CH level?

[AnnaK]

The chlorine, pool calculator says need I gallon, 3 quarts, 1 cup or 236 oz of 6% bleach to bring me back to Mondays level of 5.6.


Those test kits are fun, aren't they? :)

At the bottom of the PoolCalc there's a feature called "Effects of adding chemicals" .

It says that adding 180 oz of 6% bleach (the 2 bottles you bought) will raise the FC in a 36,000 gal pool by 2.4 ppm.

Looks like you have things well under control and are on your way to a 5 Minutes A Day pool.

[Watermom]

As long as your water isn't cloudy and your TA isn't high and you don't use cal-hypo, you'll probably be fine and don't need to bother with draining any.

[Manslick]

Those test kits are fun, aren't they? :)

At the bottom of the PoolCalc there's a feature called "Effects of adding chemicals" .

It says that adding 180 oz of 6% bleach (the 2 bottles you bought) will raise the FC in a 36,000 gal pool by 2.4 ppm.

Looks like you have things well under control and are on your way to a 5 Minutes A Day pool.

Oh good. Thanks for the reassurance.

I will look more closely at the pool calculator.

Yes the kit makes testing way fun.

[Manslick]

As long as your water isn't cloudy and your TA isn't high and you don't use cal-hypo, you'll probably be fine and don't need to bother with draining any.

I have to add water periodically due to evaporation and a small persistent leak from my filter plug. It has not rained here in nearly two weeks, with hot sunny days in the mid to upper 90’s.

I will monitor the CH level as I recall from reading the K-2006 guide that high calcium levels do something bad.

Many thanks to you and all the folk here.

[Manslick]

Testing testing testing – the other day my CC test turned yellow.

Until then it always went clear. The instructions say it may turn pink.

What’s going on?

[waterbear]

usually partial bleach out from high chlorine (very high). Try the test again with more DPD powder (3-4 scoops). If it still happens dilute your sample 1:1 with distilled water and test with a 10 ml sample then multiply your number of drops by 1 to get the FC and CC.

[Manslick]

Right on as usual Evan.

I had upped my chlorine dose to two 1.4 gal jugs to ward off any potential algae bloom since the temps are now in the mid 90’s here and I had a 4th of July party planned.

So on a hunch yesterday evening I did the 25ml CL test with two dippers and the CC came back clear as store bought glasses.

Thanks for the tips.