eric

[ericorlisa]

hi my name is eric and my wife's is lisa. we have two boys and one girl. ages 6, 12 and 19. this is our first year with a 24ft agp. we bought this pool used . it's a muskin tradewinds i think at least that's what ive determined from our research on google. it has a sand filter with a 1.5hp pump motor. so far the water is clear and the chlorine levels are good. we have a cheap 3in1 tester. checks clorine bromine and ph. the ph has been fluctuating daily and we have been staying on top of keeping plenty of chlorine in it. we have read a lot on poolsolutions.com so we know a little about what to do but we still need a lot of help. we've had smaller intex pools in the past and attempted to keep them clean. can you tell us how to administer the right chemicals and accurately measure the important number for safe swimming and fun with the least amount of effort.

thanks,
eric, lisa & kids

[Watermom]

First, welcome to the Pool Forum! Secondly, I would suggest that you get a good kit. Take a look at the kits on the Amazon link in my signature below. The Taylor-K-2006 or 2006C is the one we recommend. If you order through those links, the forum makes a little money, too. That kit will make your pool maintenance much easier.

Can you post any numbers for us? Also, tell us exactly what you have added --- meaning ingredients, and not just "shock." Do alot of reading here on the forum as welll as on Pool Solutions.

BTW -- That is a mighty big pump for a 24ft AG! I have the same size pool and I have a full-rated 1/2 hp inground pump on it and that is plenty big. My first pump for the pool was a 1hp and I downsized when it was time to replace it. The problem with big pumps is that they are so powerful that they sometimes will just push debris right through the sandbed and back into your pool. I hope you don't have that problem with yours.

[ericorlisa]

we have been using the walmart chemicals aqua chem 1 inch tablets in the skimmer and chlorine tablets in the chlorinator float. we put a pack of walmart shock in thursday evening and half a box of borax in pool yesterday according to our 3in1 walmart test kit this morning chlorine is 2-3ppm , bromine 3.4-6.5 , and ph is between 7.6-7.8 we are almost out of the chlorine tablets and plan to use 6% bleach instead. we need help to know how much bleach, borax and baking soda to use. not sure of anything right now. still learning.

[Watermom]

In your pool, each quart of 6% bleach should add around 1.2ppm of chlorine. How long have you been been using the pucks and what kind of shock did you use, meaning ingredients? Pucks and some types of shock add cya (stabilizer) so that is something you will need to test for at some point in the near future to find out your CYA level. For now, test chlorine morning and evening and each time, add enough bleach to get back to around 6ppm. When we find out your CYA level, we will adjust our advice. If you find in the evening that your chlorine level has gone to zero before the evening dose of bleach, you may want to try and add a little in the afternoon if you can. After you get enough stabilizer in there, you'll be able to go to testing and dosing in the evenings only. Your pH is ok. Don't add any Borax right now or any baking soda until you find out what your alk reading is. BTW -- you have a chlorine pool, not bromine. Ignore that reading. Consider getting a better kit. it will make things easier for you.

[ericorlisa]

we've been using the pucks for 2-3 weeks and have shocked twice when clorine was below .6ppm.what is a stabilizer? what kind should i get. i ordered the cheaper test kit you recommended i think it was $53. it will probably be next week sometime b4 i get to use it and i will post my readings at that time.

[Watermom]

Stabilizer is kind of like 'sunscreen for your chlorine.' Without it, your chlorine will disappear fast especially on a hot, sunny day. Sometimes it is called conditioner. The real name is cyanuric (or isocyanuric) acid. You may have to buy it from a pool store (don't let them talk you into anything else!) or sometimes you can find it at Walmart, Lowe's or Home Depot. Buy a 5 lb. container. Don't add any until you get your CYA level tested. The pucks and possibly the shock you've added may have already added some stabilizer so we need to know the cya level before advising you how much additional to add. This is something you don't want more of than you need in your pool! What was the ingredient on the bag of shock that you added? Good decision to get the good kit. Hopefully you'll get it quick!

[ericorlisa]

the shock is aqua chem: 58.2% sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione and other ingredients 41.8%. 1" chlorinating tabs also is aqua chem: 99% trichloro-s-triazinetrione and other ingredients 1% and of course you know the ingredients of the half box of borax. that's pretty much it so far.

[Watermom]

Ok. The shock is dichlor and the tabs are trichlor, both of which are stabilized which means they add CYA along with the chlorine. As soon as you get your test kit, run a full set of numbers for us to look at. Once we know the CYA reading, we can better advise you on how high to keep the chlorine. If you happen to have a reputable pool store near you, you could ask them to test it for you, but don't buy any stuff they try and sell you. Otherwise, just wait til you get your kit.

[ericorlisa]

my son checked the water yesterday cl 1.5 ppm and ph 76-7.8. this morning no cl and ph 7.6-7.8. appears to have debris in water. not sure if all bugs or if its agae. i poured 48oz of bleach and 1 lb. shock. what do i do next? i got some black agaecide from family leisure. should i add this or wait?

[ericorlisa]

turns out my son cut grass with the riding lawnmower close to the pool which explains the debris in water. how long should i wait before taking a cya reading?

[CarlD]

At least till you calm down enough not to strangle him!
LOL!
(I have a teenage son...)

Carl

[Watermom]

When was the last time you either added CYA or used a form of stabilized chlorine (dichlor or trichlor)?

[ericorlisa]

i have not used any stabilizer in the pool other than what was in the shock and chlorine tablets. by the way we just ran out of the tablets and have only one pack of shock left. we are anxious to start the bbb program but are not sure how to do it correctly. we have our pool test kit now also.

[ericorlisa]

i checked our pool this morning here are the readings: FC 2.5ppm CC 0 PH 7.6-7.8 TA 100ppm & CYA less than 30ppm(was not sure if the black dot was suppose to be not visible at all- water was somewhat cloudy at best). what do i need to do now? thanks for all your help.

[Watermom]

Since your CYA is still pretty low and since you still have one pack of shock left, I'd go ahead and use it but maybe not the whole bag at once since your water is clear and you don't really need to shock. Add enough of it to raise your cl level up to about 6 or 7. Then, in the next couple of days, use the rest of it as your source of chlorine. When it is gone, just switch to using bleach. That last pack of shock will add some additional CYA. About a week after you finish using that bag of shock, retest your CYA and report it here.

Unless I missed it when I scanned back through your thread, I think your pool is clear. Your TA is fine, pH is fine, you have no CC. What do you need to do now? Go swimming!!

[madwil]

somewhat cloudy is good- means you have some CYA, just not enough to read at 30 yet. The black dot will completely disappear, if you have enough CYA to make that happen.
Assuming your pool water is clear (the grass clippings will come out in the skimmer, or make the son do it by hand; my son used his teeth the 3rd time he did it! lol)
I would use a few more bags of the dichlor to maintain your FC 3-5, until your CYA reaches 30-40; then use straight bleach.
test chlorine and pH daily...
Since you are out of pucks, I wouldn't get anymore; and watch your pH; the trichlor would have pushed the pH down, it may start to rise on you now.
Use muriatic acid to lower (or pH down...), keep it 7.2-7.8; use the borax to increase it if it goes low.

[ericorlisa]

hi to everyone who has helped us. we have used the last half bag of our shock and we are now on 6% bleach from walmart. here are my readings today FC 4ppm PH 7.6 CYA i'm guessing about 20-25ppm it was more cloudy than my last posted reading but i can still see the black dot on the bottom even past 30ppm and TA 100ppm. our pool is 24ft by 48" or 52" not real sure about the depth since we bought this pool second hand. what do we need to do now? should we add some stabilzer and borax or baking soda?

[Watermom]

You don't need any Borax or baking soda as your pH and alk are fine. I wouldn't add any more or test for CYA again for at least 4 or 5 days to save your reagent. And, that way you'll have given that last bit of dichlor time to have totally dissolved into your water so you should get an accurate reading. How does your water look? Is it all clear? Did you get your test kit yet?

[ericorlisa]

how long should we run our pump? we have been running it during the day and turning it off at night. sometimes we run it all night. we have use up 3.75 lbs. of 1" chlorine tablets-99% trichloro-s-triazinetrione and 5-1 lb bags of shock-58.2% sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione .

the water is crystal clear and we got our test kit and have used it three times.

[Watermom]

Do you have a CC reading that you can report in addition to your FC reading? How recent is that FC reading? Did you add chlorine after you got that reading?

Typically most people run their pumps around 8-10 hours per day. You can split it into two 4-5hr cycles if you want or just all at once. I usually just run my pump from about noon until about 8pm or so.

[ericorlisa]

i almost forgot about the CC. CC 0ppm. the FC reading as well as all the other reading was 1 hour ago.

[Watermom]

Good deal. One more test and then I think you are home free. I would go ahead and add just a little more bleach now if you can and get it up to 6ppm. If you're gonna be up for awhile, test it an hour after you add it. Then, test in the morning before the sun really gets on the pool. (Definitely within 2 hours of sunrise.) If you lose no more than 1ppm of cl overnight then you are good to go and can then just maintain proper levels and you'll be fine. Keep your chlorine between 3-6 all the time. If you find that by evening, you are dropping lower than 3pm, then you should take it a little higher that evening. You don't want to go below 3ppm.

[Watermom]

How are things going?

[ericorlisa]

so far so good. when do i need to add algaecide? i've read that it's a good preventative.

[Watermom]

You don't ever HAVE to. I never do. I don't think any of the other mods do either. If you maintain your chemistry, you really don't need it.

[ericorlisa]

you told me to wait 3-4 days to re-test CYA and i'm following your lead because i'm new to the pool care club. i still have much to learn and i keep reading info on this forum. what are good number ranges for Cl, PH, TA & CYA. i live in north Alabama-hot and lots of humidity and we live in the valley so we get all the pollen and crud that settles all around which is why we get plenty of head colds-sinus infectionville.

[Watermom]

Hi, Eric,

Good ranges:
cl --- depends on your CYA level. If you haven't already done so, look at the Best Guess table in my signature.
pH -- anywhere 7.2-7.8 is ok. I prefer 7.4-7.6
TA -- 80-120
CYA -- I like 40-50. One of my co-mods, Aylad (Janet), lives in Louisiana where she receives full sun all day long and very hot temps. She deliberately runs her CYA 70-80ish because it helps her keep chlorine in her pool better. If I was you, I would try 40-50 first and if you find that you cannot make it through a day without losing all FC by evening, you can always decide to bump it up some. Easier to bump it up than to remove it.

[ericorlisa]

do you suggest using stabilizer as my source for CYA or Chlorine Tablets? i have 3 lbs of walmart stabilizer on hand. how long should i wait to test CYA after installing stabilizer? i plan to check my CYA tomorrow before adding any stabilizer though.

[Watermom]

I would wait 5-7 days before testing CYA after adding it. If you already have the granular cyanuric acid, use it but not until you retest first.

[ericorlisa]

i've retested 1 hour ago: CYA 20-25 (the test tube is cloudier this time but i had to fill my taylor test kit past the 30ppm mark before the black dot would completely disappear) FC 7 ( after adding half gallon of 6% bleach and i waited 1 hr before checking) CC 0 PH 7.8 TA 100. i think i remember testing for the FC drop over night two days ago and it was 1-1.5 drop from the night before. we're ready to do whatever we need to do next. what's next? thank you so much for your help btw.

eric and lisa

[Watermom]

If it has been about a week since you added any stabilizer (CYA) so that you know it has all dissolved, then I'd add a little more to bump you up to about 40.

is 7.8 the highest reading that your pH tester can differentiate? If so, was your 7.8 a true 7.8 or was it actually even a darker red than that?

By the way, a BIG, BIG, thank you for becoming a lifetime member! That is SO awesome and we really appreciate it very much! Ben was very pleased to see that you had done so. We are very happy to have you be a part of our forum!

[ericorlisa]

our taylor tester will test ph up to 8.0. how much stabilizer should i start out with? i have a 3 lb. bottle from walmart. we are glad to be a part of this forum too. you all seem to run a high standard when it comes to the language and what's allowed to be discussed. this is really refreshing in this day and age. based on the size of our pool will 16 oz of stabiler add 12ppm of CYA to a 15k gallon pool?

[Watermom]

16 oz. of stabilizer will add about 8.5ppm of CYA.

The reason I asked about the limits of your pH tester is because if 7.8 is the highest your kit could read and you got 7.8, it could actually be much higher. But, since your kit can read to 8.0, then we know your 7.8 is actually 7.8 which is fine.

Regarding our forum standards, yes, out of courtesy to our members and ourselves, we do run a clean house. We try to be fair, honest and polite and we expect the same in our members. At least one of the Pool Forum staff reads every single post on this forum and generally we all read all of them. Occasionally we have someone come along who uses some inappropriate language or content and we edit it and clean it up and ask them to refrain from doing so again. Generally one request is all it takes, but once in awhile, we have to remove a user who will not abide by what is expected. We want the forum to be a place people enjoying being a part of in their quest to take care of their pools.

[ericorlisa]

hi Watermom, its been a while but the reason i've not poste anything is i've been wating for my CYA to get to 40-50ppm. i had to add doses two different times gradually increasing it. my latest readings are: FC-4-6ppm, CYA-45ppm(it's in between 40 and 50ppm), TA-100ppm and PH-8.0(Real Red and this is as high as my Taylor kit will Read). i thought the PH should be brought down so i added about 32-40 oz. of muratic acid. the water looked fine yesterday but today when i got home there was some debris on the pool floor. it was sort of brown like dirt but was lighter or fluffier. i vacuumed it today and backwashed my sand filter which btw it really needed since the return pressure had decreased in force considerably over the past few weeks and i notice my guage was reading less pressure about 10psi all the time that's when i concluded the gauge is faulty. i need a new gauge not sure where to get one yet. any way i vacuumed the debris and 45 minutes later i was finished and i checked the return pressure with my hand and it was little to non existent. i back flushed twice until water coming out was clear. i then switched back to filter and turned my pump on and what do you know my pressure was back to normal somewhat since im using a calibrated hand right now until i can get another gauge. is it normal to see debris on the pool floor after adding muriatic acid? oh btw we had 7-8 people in the pool saturday and most of them were kids from boy scouts and their siblings. not sure if the people count had anything to do with it but the kids got in and out several times tracking grass into the pool. the good new is that i've been checking FC levels before and after the pool party and the next day. never got below 4ppm and before the kids got in the pool i added some extra cl to the pool to compensate for usage guessing about 6-8 ppm. i have one more question for you before i go to bed. when should any member start a new thread?

[Watermom]

Hi ericorlisa. Glad things have been going well for you.

I have not heard of muriatic acid causing brown stuff to accumulate on the pool floor. I would suggest however, smaller doses of acid at a time when you need to lower pH. What is the pH now?

You definitely need to buy a new gauge, Pool stores carry them of course and maybe Home Depot of Lowe's? Not sure about that.

Regarding when to start a new thread, there is no hard and fast rule, but usually just whenever the problem or question is something different. Actually, I think I will move this post into a new thread and retitle it as "Dose of Muriatic Acid Caused Brown Debris on pool floor?" It will be in the "Pool Water Problems" section of the forum. Look for it there. So, we'll let the discussion be continued there for anybody that would like to reply.

[ericorlisa]

ericorlisa ----- I removed this post since you also had put it in the new thread. Let's continue over there instead of here. OK?