Pool still cloudy white. Been a week today... This stinks.

[Lawrosa]

Hi all. Happy summer of 2011!!!!

FC 13
PH 7.2
Alk 80
CYA 30
Hardness. 1gpg or 17.1 ppm. I tested with my well hardness powder test

History.

Opened pool up. Pool was a green swamp. This is because I needed to take cover off early spring beacuse of rip, and did not want leaves falling in.

Shocked like crazy. (Bleach) PH was high while shocking in the beggining. 12 + Have not added anything but claifier.

Green turned to a white haze. (White milk)

I have had the filter running hi/lo 24/7. Adding DE not adding DE. Added the blue clarifier 3 times 2oz, 2oz, and 4 oz. Hi/lo, hi/lo etc....

Chlorine stays overnight, and all day in the sun. I have not added any in 24 hours.

What do I do??????

Testing with taylor deluxe kit Chlorine,ph,alk.

[chem geek]

Is the pool cloudy mostly in the deeper part of the pool? I suspect that with your size pool you have one return and one skimmer and no floor drains, is that right? If so, then you can do two things to help clear the cloudiness in the pool -- 1) brush the pool to stir up what is on the bottom to help get it to the filter and 2) point the return diagonally down and to the side to create a circular swirling effect that can bring up some of what is in the bottom of the pool to the surface. I'd continue to use DE in your sand filter, but you've got to get the cloudy water to the filter to clear it. I'm also assuming your filter is actually working properly -- if the sand is channeled, then that won't work properly to filter (though if it were really bad then the DE that you add could come back out the return).

[Lawrosa]

Its a small pool. There is no deep end. I cant see 6" down, and even that might be the reflection. No floor drain.

I been brushing, and vacuuming everyday.

The return is one of those lights, and is aimed downish. It always sprays out the side away from the skimmer.

Get the cloudy water to the filter!!!!!!??????? The whol pool is cloudy. I am sure the cloud is getting there...LOL

I dont think its channeled, and if DE was getting back I would not know. It would be the same color of the water...Ha,ha...

I had my old cartridge filter hooked in series with the sand. The filter is old but it does build pressure. I got tired of sparaying it, so I took the cartridge out and am just using the sand. I can see light through some of the pleates. No holes but real thin in areas. Its 6 yrs old...LOL

Oh and I think the blue stuff might be working. I added 4 oz this morning. I just backwashed for the overnight run and the glass was really white, like it was catching stuff finally. Or it could be the DE , but usually the DE comes out quick, and then the glass is clear. This time the glass stayed white for a good minute.

I have a new cartridge coming but will not be here until Tuesday, so I am stuck with using the sand.

The reason I have two filters, is because the sand is way easier for start up with heavy debris. The cart cloggs to fast. Once I get it clear I use the cart. I usually only need to clean once during the season. Its 100 sq ft.

I only been adding about 1/4 cup of DE. If I add more the pressure goes up quickly and slows the return. Then it gets to 19 psi from 12 psi start and just sits there.

[Lawrosa]

Still cloudy!!! Actually I thought it was clearing up last night. But shocked again last night and ran pump overnight. I am beggining to think its the bleach. I know you will all say it cant be, but thats what I believe.

I am going to do a test and let the chlorine come down to normal levels. If it clears up then someone could explain why.

I am not crazy.....

[PoolDoc]

Sounds like you have filter failure -- pretty typical on AG pools with sand filters.

Put your cartridge filter back in, and you'll probably be able to clean up in a few days.

Ben

[Lawrosa]

OK I will give it a try. The reason I am trying because I never floc'ed the pool and I would not know how to vacuum it up.

How about the claifier? Is this something I should continue to add? I added 2 oz, 2 oz, the 4 oz an all different days.

[Watermom]

Typically we don't recommend the use of clarifiers. Usually the more pool "stuff" you add, the harder it is to clear the pool.

[Lawrosa]

Pool doc I read your post on the other thread. I do have a 2 speed pump and been using low at night and high during the day.

I have the cart and sand hooked in series. I put the cart back in like you suggested. The pressures are normal there. Typically the sand by itself starts at 12 psi. With the cart installed the sand is at 8psi. Lower flow? It will filter better I would think. If I run it with both filters on low the flow is too reduced IMO. So I am running on Hi now.

All #'s are still normal. Just cloudy.

[Lawrosa]

OK all #'s normal.

Still cloudy.... Ho..Hum!!!!

I will post afternoon the status.

[Lawrosa]

OK all #'s normal.

FC 4
alk 80
ph 7.2
cya 30

Still cloudy. Filtering 24/7

Ho Hum. Vacuum and brush everyday.

Will probably copy and past this for tomorrows update. Will be two weeks Tuesday.

[Watermom]

Is your filter pressure rising? Can you test and get either a CC or a TC reading in addition to the FC reading?

[madwil]

What's your CH? your other numbers look good, but CH can be screwy with cloud issues.
Can you see your return water? does it look more/less cloudy than the pool?

[Lawrosa]

I tested hardness with my hach hardness test. It has the powder you add one scope. It tests at 1 gpg or 17.1 ppm.

I will test CC when it comes down and I can see the results in the tube. Last time it was FC 1. then add r3 reagent and it read a 2. So that was TC 3, and CC 1? 2? But I have been shocking.

[CarlD]

Never heard of that test for hardness. The only powder test I'm familiar with is the FAS-DPD chlorine test.

Carl

[Watermom]

If you have a CC of 1, then you are fighting something in the water and need to continue shocking and try and consistently keep your chlorine level at about 15ppm. (How high have you been shocking to?) With a cya of 30, a cl level of 4 isn't gonna kill something growing in the water. I am not familiar with the units you used to measure your hardness level. Another thing I am wondering is whether your pump is too powerful. A 1hp pump is pretty big for a 6200 gallon pool. Too big of a pump on too small of a filter will not filter the water well because the pump forces debris through the filter with too much pressure and your sand can't trap it.

[Lawrosa]

The hardness test is ammonium chloride... I use it to test my well hardness level. I think its total hardness?????

I have been shocking to above 13 ppm for all this time. I just started letting it come down to normal levels because nothing has been changing. The pool is white/blue cloudy.

I have been adding DE and running the pump on low. So I understand the too powerful of a pump thing. The pressure does rise with DE but not without it. I have a new cartridge coming for my old cartridge filter that I am going to hook back up. It will not be here until tuesday.

[Watermom]

Go ahead and shock up a little higher and see if that helps. Try to sustain the high reading without letting it yo-yo up and down. Your pressure should be rising. I'm wondering if you are having filter issues.

Edit: I have also asked Ben to take another look at this thread and see if he has any other suggestions for you. He probably won't be around til at least this evening, however.

[Lawrosa]

Yeah. Sand is one yr old. New laterals from last yr. Took apart, sand is good and all there. Took hose and stuck it in to clean it good. New spidergasket. Pressure rises overnight 6 psi or so on high, low goes up 2-4 psi, but on low output is really reduced so I backwash. On high it seems to stop before 20 psi. Starts at 12psi.


Just tested pool.

FC 2
Added 5 drops of r3 looks inbetween 2 and 3. 2.5??? TC 2.5 ????
Is that .5 CC???
PH 7.2. Orange color. One color above 6.8
Alk 80. 8 drops to change from green to red.
Hardness like I said I have this kit. It changes pink to blue in one drop. 17.1 ppm or 1 gpg.

http://www.hach.com/hc/search.product.details.invoker/PackagingCode=145300/NewLinkLabel=Hardness+%28Total%29+Test+Kit%2C+Mode l+5-B%2C+Drop+Count+Titration%2C+1-30+gpg%2C+100+tests/SESSIONID%7CATBGQk1UTXdOekk1TVRBMk16TTJPU1puZFdWem RGWkZVUT09QQ==%7C

CYA is at 30

What else should I test for?
What defect should I be looking at with the sand filter? I see nothing wrong. The only thing is where the valve sits on the riser/lateral. Is there a O ring. It looks like the valve just sits on the pipe. Its tight. To get the valve off you need to rotate it to get it off. Otherwise the laterals want to come out.

http://www.poolsinc.com/images/parts/sc437.gif

[chem geek]

With a smaller pool, is there just one return and no floor drains? Is the cloudiness mostly in the deeper water? If so, then poor circulation could be a problem where pointing the return downwards (or diagonally downwards) and brushing can help stir up the cloudy water to get it to the skimmer and into the filter.

Also, you could try adding some DE to your sand filter to improve filtration though your first post sounded like you tried that. You first note the PSI reading on your filter (with the pump running, of course), add 1/4 cup of DE in a bucket of water and pour it into the skimmer and then wait a couple of minutes, check the PSI reading on the filter, add another 1/4 cup of DE, repeat, until the pressure on the filter rises by 1 PSI. This should not take more than 1-2 cups of DE, probably less in your case since your filter is smaller.

Hopefully Ben will have some more ideas since he wrote that there are 100 Reasons for Cloudy Swimming Pool Water! (http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/100-reasons-for-cloudy-swimming-pool-water.html)

[Lawrosa]

One return. No floor drain. AG pool. Can see 6" down. Cloudy all the way. Added DE. 1/4 cup DE adds 1 psi. It rises 4-6 psi in 12 hours or so.

[PoolDoc]

Would have called just now, but no fone in your user profile.

Still just sounds like massive dead floating algae, and the typical problems that result when you try to clean that up with a really typical, really poor, AG pool filter setup. In general, AG pool sand filter and pump combos are TERRIBLE at cleanup.

There is another issue. I don't know which clarifier you used, but overdoses can make smaller particles essentially un-filterable. Add up your TOTAL clarifier use over the last week and compare it to the maximum dose on the bottle. If you are over, or close, that's probably a contributing factor.

HOWEVER, it sounds like you ARE filtering if you use DE or the cartridge.

If you are willing to wait another week, turn your filter on high, leave the cartridge in (get a new one if you can) and filter away. Do NOT add more clarifier. DO keep the chlorine high, to kill any remaining algae and to break down (hopefully) any excess clarifier.

If you want a clear pool sooner, go get a new DE filter or drain and refill. In fact, with just 6200 gallons, it would be cheaper to drain and refill.

Best wishes.

Ben

PS. Just had a thought -- is the sand in your filter LABELED filter sand? Some dealers have sold coarse sandblast sand as a high margin substitute. If so, you need to replace the sand you have with real filter sand. Doing so won't affect anything with the cartridge in place, but long term, it will.

[Lawrosa]

Still just sounds like massive dead floating algae, and the typical problems that result when you try to clean that up with a really typical, really poor, AG pool filter setup. In general, AG pool sand filter and pump combos are TERRIBLE at cleanup.

*********** I have two filters. The original was the powerflo matrix 100 sq ft cartridge. The pump is a one HP two speed. I run on lo 90% of the time. When I needed a new cartridge one yr because the cartridge clogged in hours, I opted for a sand filter I found on a list site. It was the 166T hayward. Free. What I do is use that for heavy spring clean up, then go to cartridge. But last yr I just kept the sand running all yr. This yr I started with the sand. Since it was not cleaning, I kooked the cart back up. But the cart cloggs too fast and has thin spots where I can see daylight. So I am just running sand now.

There is another issue. I don't know which clarifier you used, but overdoses can make smaller particles essentially un-filterable. Add up your TOTAL clarifier use over the last week and compare it to the maximum dose on the bottle. If you are over, or close, that's probably a contributing factor.


******** Clarifier I used leslies ultra bright. 2oz, 2oz and 4 oz on three different days. Says 4 oz treats 10000 gal. I have not put any in, in a couple of days.

HOWEVER, it sounds like you ARE filtering if you use DE or the cartridge.

************* I am using DE in the sand. 1/4 cup raises it 1-2 psi.

If you are willing to wait another week, turn your filter on high, leave the cartridge in (get a new one if you can) and filter away. Do NOT add more clarifier. DO keep the chlorine high, to kill any remaining algae and to break down (hopefully) any excess clarifier.

********* Getting a cartridge Tuesday. Its shipped from CA. It was 49.00 on line. Pool stores has to order at $125 bucks. This is a Unicel. They say they are the same or better quality.

If you want a clear pool sooner, go get a new DE filter or drain and refill. In fact, with just 6200 gallons, it would be cheaper to drain and refill.

******** Dont want to drain, but with all the backwashes and refilling, I think thats why its not as cloudy, but it is really cloudy.

Best wishes.

Ben

PS. Just had a thought -- is the sand in your filter LABELED filter sand? Some dealers have sold coarse sandblast sand as a high margin substitute. If so, you need to replace the sand you have with real filter sand. Doing so won't affect anything with the cartridge in place, but long term, it will.


********** This is real filter sand. Its the white middle of the road stuff. The choice was sand. middle of the road sand, or zeolite. This is a white sand.

My # should be there.

[PoolDoc]

Sounds like you just need some patience, then. I'd offer to loan you some of mine, but I'm fresh out! ;-)

[Lawrosa]

Hi all!!!

Just a update. New cartridge and pool still cloudy.

Pressure does not seem to build up in cartridge. Started with new cart at 14 psi. Ran on high all day and low at night. Woke up and put on hi. Should of built pressure if it was catching stuff correct? Pressure actually went down...12 psi??? Does not make sense.

Well I have sand filter hooked up after cart.

What I do is remove cart. Backwash sand, add de to sand to get pressure up 1 psi. Let run 15 min then install cart. I have two filters going.

I have patience but this is getting out of hand.

I do not want to drain, and especially dont want to add flock.

Any other suggestions???

[PoolDoc]

Lawrosa;

If I understand correctly, this is your situation:

#1 - You have a sand filter with fresh genuine filter sand, and a pressure gauge.
#2 - After the sand filter, you have a cartridge filter (ie., in series with the sand filter)
This filter ALSO has a pressure gauge.
#3 - You've been adding DE to the skimmer, so it ends up on the sand filter.
#4 - The pressure gauge on the on the CARTRIDGE filter has been dropping after a 12 hour run.
#5 - You didn't mention the pressure before / after on the sand filter, EXCEPT that you add enough DE to cause it to increase by 1#

Here's what I think is happening.

Once you add the DE, the pressure on the sand filter goes up at once. Because your sand filter IS working, the DE stops there, and does not reach the cartridge filter. However, you notice the pressure on cartridge filter DECREASES overnight. What you probably did not notice was that the pressure on the SAND filter increased over that same interval. This reduced flow to the cartridge filter, which would -- absent other effects -- reduce pressure.

What this indicates is that the sand filter PLUS the DE is filtering everything there is to filter. IF you add the DE to the sand filter, there's no need for the cartridge filter. But a DE coated sand filter is a *TINY*, very low dirt capacity DE filter. You might be better off to EITHER remove the cartridge OR not add DE. Without DE, the sand filter will get the big stuff, and the cartridge will get smaller stuff.

All that said, I'm not sure why your pool is not cleaning up. But, I've seen this problem before, locally, didn't understand it then, either and have noted that it has been associated with use of goop, like clarifiers. But let me be 'perfectly' clear: I do NOT know that the clarifier is the problem; I don't know WHAT the problem is.

What I can tell you is that I have ALWAYS been able to clean up pools quickly, once the algae was dead, with either sand filters or DE filters as long as they were in good condition. However, I don't use (or haven't for the last 20 years) use goop. Quickly, in this situation, equals 2 - 5 days.

One of the problems with polymers, algaecides and so on is that you end up with an electrical mishmash. It's possible to combine anionic and cationic and non-ionic polymers in such a way that you can't filter anything. But, because the chem companies don't want to talk about risks OR about the details of their "proprietary" products, this can happen without warning. Also, there are several ways to precipitate colloidal (= very fine, non-filterable) particles. The HEDP metal & stain products are particularly risky this way.

Have you done this, in your pool? Dunno.
If you just keep filtering, how long will it take to clear? Dunno.
Is there anything you can do to speed it up? Short of setting up an inground pump with an inground DE filter on a separate loop, probably not.
Should you drain? Dunno.

I can tell you what I'd probably do, if I was taking care of the pool, but I'm uncertain enough that I'm ONLY offering this as an example, not a recommendation. Anyhow:

#1 - Backwash the sand filter and do NOT add DE.
#2 - Clean the cartridge.
#3 - Put both in service.
#4 - Run the pump on high for 48 hours, while maintaining chlorine levels.
#5 - Add NOTHING else, except chlorine.
#6 - If there's no visible improvement after 2 days, drain (as much as you can safely) and refill.

Sorry I couldn't help more


Ben

[Lawrosa]

Thanks Ben. I will just add to your questions. Its almost as you describe but I have the cart first. But I add de with the cart out, then put it in. I dont want to mess up a new cart. Went in today. I could barley see my feet. Went in and brushed, and walked around with the skimmer, kicking up the bottom. Got 3 leaves and one stick. There is nothing else in there. Just cloudy. I have a pic I need to post a link

Also I only got the new cart yesterday. I really been using sand. Its been 2 weeks and 1 day since swamp.



Lawrosa;

If I understand correctly, this is your situation:

#1 - You have a sand filter with fresh genuine filter sand, and a pressure gauge.

Yes last yr when I picked it up from the list site. New sand and laterals. New spider gasket.
#2 - After the sand filter, you have a cartridge filter (ie., in series with the sand filter)
This filter ALSO has a pressure gauge.

They both have gauges. Its the cart, then the sand, The cart has a direct union pump to cart. Cant get inbetween it with out major repipe.

#3 - You've been adding DE to the skimmer, so it ends up on the sand filter.

I have been adding de with cart out. Then reinstall cart.


#4 - The pressure gauge on the on the CARTRIDGE filter has been dropping after a 12 hour run.

Ran Only cart last night. Starts at 14 psi. Ran on low speed. starts 4 psi. Woke up this morning and put on high. Figure it should be above 14 psi. Was like 12 1/2. Dont know why. Hooked sand back inline and am doing as above.
#5 - You didn't mention the pressure before / after on the sand filter, EXCEPT that you add enough DE to cause it to increase by 1#
Sand starts at 12psi. add de goes to 13-14 psi. Gets good pressure after 12 hours. 18 psi or so, but then just stops and will not rise anymore. I figure its channeling so I backwash and repeat.

Here's what I think is happening.

Once you add the DE, the pressure on the sand filter goes up at once. Because your sand filter IS working, the DE stops there, and does not reach the cartridge filter. However, you notice the pressure on cartridge filter DECREASES overnight. What you probably did not notice was that the pressure on the SAND filter increased over that same interval. This reduced flow to the cartridge filter, which would -- absent other effects -- reduce pressure.

Yes this is what is happening. But this way. As the sand filter builds up pressure the cart does also because its trying to push through clogged up sand. The cart alone by itself was the one thatdropped pressure which is odd. Because when I first install yesterday I noted 14 psi start pressure hi, 4 psi lo. The next day when I went from lo to high the pressure was lower. I have no clue whats happening there.

What this indicates is that the sand filter PLUS the DE is filtering everything there is to filter. IF you add the DE to the sand filter, there's no need for the cartridge filter. But a DE coated sand filter is a *TINY*, very low dirt capacity DE filter. You might be better off to EITHER remove the cartridge OR not add DE. Without DE, the sand filter will get the big stuff, and the cartridge will get smaller stuff.

I dont think they are getting anything. Although it would seem the sand with DE is doing something. Without de in the sand filter it will sit at 12 psi all day........

All that said, I'm not sure why your pool is not cleaning up. But, I've seen this problem before, locally, didn't understand it then, either and have noted that it has been associated with use of goop, like clarifiers. But let me be 'perfectly' clear: I do NOT know that the clarifier is the problem; I don't know WHAT the problem is.

Have never added anything to my pool from day one but BBB. When I bought the pool I found your site back in 2005. They gave me a box with the pool of something that does it all. It was a powder. They said its adjusts everything automatically. Threw it in the garbage.

What I can tell you is that I have ALWAYS been able to clean up pools quickly, once the algae was dead, with either sand filters or DE filters as long as they were in good condition. However, I don't use (or haven't for the last 20 years) use goop. Quickly, in this situation, equals 2 - 5 days.

Its been two weeks and one day today.

One of the problems with polymers, algaecides and so on is that you end up with an electrical mishmash. It's possible to combine anionic and cationic and non-ionic polymers in such a way that you can't filter anything. But, because the chem companies don't want to talk about risks OR about the details of their "proprietary" products, this can happen without warning. Also, there are several ways to precipitate colloidal (= very fine, non-filterable) particles. The HEDP metal & stain products are particularly risky this way.

Have you done this, in your pool? Dunno.

I used clarifier, the blue stuff not a floc, one yr when I had a cloudy pool. Cleared overnight. So I thought it would work here. I added this in oz on 4 different days. 2oz-2oz-4oz-4oz. I am not adding anymore. The bottle says 4 oz trats 10,000 gal. I am 12x18 oval 4.5' deep.

If you just keep filtering, how long will it take to clear? Dunno.

Im' a filterin'

Is there anything you can do to speed it up? Short of setting up an inground pump with an inground DE filter on a separate loop, probably not.
Should you drain? Dunno.

My pump on high with cart stats 80 gpm. 6200 gals should turn around in less the 2 hrs. The stuff seems too fine for filtering.

I can tell you what I'd probably do, if I was taking care of the pool, but I'm uncertain enough that I'm ONLY offering this as an example, not a recommendation. Anyhow:

#1 - Backwash the sand filter and do NOT add DE.
#2 - Clean the cartridge.
#3 - Put both in service.
#4 - Run the pump on high for 48 hours, while maintaining chlorine levels.
#5 - Add NOTHING else, except chlorine.
#6 - If there's no visible improvement after 2 days, drain (as much as you can safely) and refill.

If there is no improvment I am going to visit you so we can swim in your pool. Me, the wife and 3 kids. Now my youngest is still in diapers. I will put the swimmies on him but I hope he dont have an accident in your pool...LOL. My 10 yr old might add some yellow water to your pool though...LOL.

Sorry I couldn't help more

Thats OK. I have alot of patience. Its the kids. They want to know why everyone else is swimming in thier pools and we are not. My 10 yr old is even questioning what I am putting in the pool. He sees the other kids father using floats with pucks, and he wants to know why I am using bleach. He says its my fault. Uggg!!! My kids think Im a failure.....LOL

Ben

[CarlD]

The only thing I see in terms of tests is that your FC is 2. With 6000 gallons, one gallon of 6% bleach should raise your FC by 9.5. With a CYA of 30, you need an FC of 15, constantly maintained. That means about 6 quarts of 6% bleach to get you to 15ppm, then 1 quart for every 1.5 ppm below 15ppm, and checking 3x/day.

I haven't seen that you are doing that unless I'm missing something. Once you've done THAT until your FC level holds the clearing should be possible. But if you water isn't blue, you have algae. If your water is blue, just cloudy, it's just stuff that has to be filtered out.

I don't understand your dual filter system. Ben does, but I don't. I would suggest just using the sand filter and cutting out the cart for now. KISS. Meanwhile, another user who is having TERRIBLE metal problems (you don't seem to have that) is using a secondary jury-rigged filter using a sump pump to force water through a five-gallon covered bucket filled with batting and other material to catch any particles. It's pulling a lot of metal out of that pool. I do not know if it will work for YOU, but if you have a sump pump, some hoses and a 5 gal bucket with a tight lid (that Home Depot sells for $3 or $4), you could try it.

Carl

Chlorine is chlorine, whether it comes in bleach bottles or tri-chlor pucks. Sorry if your kids don't "get" that.

[Lawrosa]

Pics. Thanks Carl. I know everyone has been probably brushing over this post to help others in more need. Or just assume I know what to do, and have patience. I am trying.

My test goes as high as 5ppm. I been diluting to get close results. I have been shocking everyday. The chlorine holds from the night before somewhat. It got down to a TC 1 ppm with a 1 CC. Its getting dark here so I threw 2 1/2 three quart bottles of 6%.

Possibly I am yo yo' ing????

http://s1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/lawrosa/pool/

[CarlD]

If your TC is dropping from 5 to 1 overnight, then you are fighting algae and you need to keep it at 15. You can dilute but I think Ben also says if OTO color goes to deep orange it's close to ten and if it goes to brown it's around 15 (without dilution). Ben can correct me.

In the pictures it looks pretty blue, but that's not reliable. The TC dropping is more indicative of algae.

Looking at your sand filter and your cart, either should EASILY be adequate for your pool and both is over-kill. Plus, you are filtering FIRST with the cart, not the sand. I can see that from the pump, and the way the lines go to the sand filter. So I'm guessing when you put the DE in the skimmer, it clogged the cart. When you pull out the cartridge element and close it up, you should just be using the sand filter.

Again, I'm guessing that you ARE yo-yo-ing because you are not keeping the chlorine at shock level.

Carl

[Lawrosa]

Carl I added some pics from at night with the pool light on.

I take the cart out when I add DE. Dont want to clogg that its a new cart.

I have been trying to keep the chlorine at 13 I thought from the best guess chart.

What I mean with the chlorine holding is I shock to say 13-15. Then the next morning the dpd test is blood red. I know its still high. I dilute the test 1/3 pool to 2/3 water. (RO water. Im on a well) Its still at least as high as it was the night before, but I cant test CC until it comes down to under 5 ppm. Today it was a cc 1

I have a taylor deluxe dpd kit from leslies. I have a oto just for having it.

The pool is blue but cloudy.

I though the carts filter to 10 micron and the sand 30 micron?

The problem is the cart is rated for 80 gpm. My pump is two speed 1 hp. The sand is a hayward 166t and rated for 25 gpm. I put it after the cart to reduce the flow.

Ugggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

[Lawrosa]

Is this what I need to test my chlorine at high levels?????? I never knew they made such a thing.


http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_kitinfo.asp?&MarketID=1&KitID=2185

But 25 bucks???

Cheaper then 80 bucks though. I have all the other tests.

http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_kitinfo.asp?&MarketID=1&KitID=2230

Mike NJ

[CarlD]

You can also buy the K-1515 by clicking on the link in Pooldoc's signature in this thread. If you order it there, a small amount gets kicked back to PoolForum to help pay for maintaining the place. One K-1515 will EASILY get you through the season. Since you have the other tests, yes it's the key to what you need.

Carl

[CarlD]

Can you post your latest current numbers?
FC
TC
CC
pH
T/A
CH
CYA

I'd like to see you run that Calcium Hardness test again, just to be sure it's not that, combined with Total Alkalinity and pH. Just a hunch......

Carl

[Lawrosa]

OK.

I added 244 oz of bleach late afternoon yesterdayto raise FC 17-20. FC was a 2 or 3.

Buy night time I tested with a 1/4 part pool water to 3/4 part ro tap water it tested at FC 8. ( 2 ppm x 4 )

So I added 96 oz to bring it back up to FC 15 ppm

This morning tested same way and was a FC 12.

Added 48 oz to bring back to FC 15 PPM


Filter was running all night. Pressure rise stopped on both filters. Sand with DE started at 12 psi.Added DE and went to 14 psi. Overnight it raised to 16.5 and stopped there. It was pretty much there when I went to bed.

Cart I am not touching. Its new and I have not cleaned it. I want it to get dirty so the pressure will start rising, and it catches stuff.

Pool still cloudy.

So FC 15
PH is reading high now again, 8.2ppm. Because of shocking someone told me, and is normal????
Alk 80 ppm
CYA . Trying to find more reagent. Everone is out of it.
Total hardness. 17.1 ppm

[CarlD]

Your FC constantly dropping means you are DEFINITELY fighting something.
Shocking DOES push your pH to read high but I would still add some MA or dry acid a bit at a time till pH reads under 8, in the 7's. When FC is high, I'd just like to see pH under 8. When/if FC drops again, you should see your TRUE pH and you'll want it in the 7.2-7.5 range

I have no idea how you can measure calcium hardness and get a number like 17.1ppm. I'd be hard pressed to tell if it was 10 or 20ppm. Also, if, at some point you were using cal-hyp, frequently packaged as "shock", that adds calcium. Even my local tap water tests around 60ppm.

Still, you may be bang on accurate and outside my experience.

Carl

[Lawrosa]

I have a total hardness test kit. Once scoop of powder turns it pink, and for every drop its 1 grain hard or 17.1 ppm. It turns blue as soon as I add the scoop.

My house water has a softner. My house water is 1 gpg or 17.1 ppm, hence my pool is the same. Thats my fill water.

I have never added any chemical to my pool but BBB from day one.

[CarlD]

Lawrosa,
As I said: outside my experience.

So you've reversed my hunch. Your cloudiness cannot be due to excess calcium in the water.
So it's the algae fight and filtering fight.

The big key is you cannot maintain your FC level, which means chlorine is being metabolized, which means there something to be attacked with the chlorine.

Carl

[Lawrosa]

What is it???? There are no leaves or debris. I vacuum, and brush. Not slimy walls????The pool is clean but cloudy.

Hmmmm.....

[CarlD]

What is it???? There are no leaves or debris. I vacuum, and brush. Not slimy walls????The pool is clean but cloudy.

Hmmmm.....

I don't know but it's consuming your chlorine. There's nothing dead on the bottom, is there? You can't see but a skimmer or leaf rake might find it.

Carl

[Lawrosa]

No. I actually got in the pool yesterday with the brush and skimmer. I brush all walls and floor, and ran the skimmer around the bottom while kicking up with my feet. I got 3 leaves and a stick out. Thats all. I spent about 2 hours doing this. This was before I started shocking again. TC was about a 1 or 2.

I am keeping it to 15 plus as you and Ben suggest. And running the filter for 48 hours on hi. If it dont work I guess I will start draining, and refilling.

I just cant believe no one has had this problem. If its not normal then I must be doing something wrong.

Ohh and the whole state of NJ is out of cynaric acid test reagent #13. I called every pool store north and south of the mason dixon line..... Nothing.

Also should I try chlorox bleach???? I have been buying the cheap no name stuff...Could it be the bleach? Its all unscented with nothing added like easy pour, no splash, lemon scent...etc.

Mike NJ

[CarlD]

Order #13 on-line. That's what I do. There are lots of places to get it. But the only shops I ever saw stock ANY Taylor reagents for individual sale is Leslies. The one on Rt 22 used to have them. Don't know about the Parsippany one.

[Watermom]

Clorox bleach will offer nothing over generic bleach. Save your money and buy generic.

[Lawrosa]

OK.

Its been 48 hours of non-stop filtering, and shocking per Ben's instruction.

I CAN SEE THE BOTTOM!!!!! Still hazy/light cloudy.

Not sure what is in the pool but its eating chlorine like crazy. I have been testing with diluted sample. 1/4 pool to 3/4 RO water. I know its not accurate but that all I have.

I would shock to over 15 ppm and in an hour or so it was at a 12 ppm. Sometimes 8 ppm. I just kept using the calculator and adding what it said.

Now since the filter was not doing anything before, I figure whatever was not filterable, becomes filterable from shocking???? Is this correct????? So If someone had a cloudy pool its shock thats important to make the material filterable? If so how? Isnt live algae the same size as dead algae?

OK so thats where I am at. The other thing is I am not sure what my CYA is anymore. No one sells it in NJ from what I can see. I dont think they are suppling it. Only online.

I bought the DPD powder, and R- 0871 reagent for chlorine testing from taylor. It was as cheap or cheaper then any online store I could find. I also bought some CYA R-0013.

Anyone know of cheap online stores they used?

I guess I will shock alittle higher like I did last night and keep filtering.

Ohh, had a heck of a rain storm last night with hail. I wonder is it helped the pool....LOL. After the rain is when it started clearing.. Might be coinsidence.

Next question is what filter should I run for best clarity??? I have a cart and sand. I am starting to think sand with DE added is superior to the cart. My problem is a 1 hp two speed pump. Its rated for the cart at 80 gpm. The sand filter is rated at 25 gpm. Whats this all mean???

After all these yrs I thought I knew what I was doing.

[CarlD]

Yeah we had that same storm. My FC was 1 today...barely! You gave us GREAT info: Your cart has a rating of 80gpm and your sand 25gpm. IMHO isconnect the sand filter and use the cart. It has far greater capacity and, at its root, filters better.

It's not that live algae is the same size as dead algae, it's that as long as algae is live it keeps making MORE algae to filter out. Dead algae doesn't.

Carl

[Lawrosa]

So just a wrap up. Pool is clear. Well it looks clear but something was off. I noticed a brown ring just below the water line. Something else seemed off also but I did not kno what.

Well I read the staining section, in the metals forum, and bought some vitamin C to do the test. Holy cow!!! I cleared a small spot so bright in the liner. The pool liner is actually blue. I been looking at a grey liner and did not even realize.

Yep. That was it. Clear water but a dull grey/brownish liner.

I have a post in the metals section, but no one has responded.

I wonder if I should take pics of how the vitamin C cleaned the liner??? There should be a pic section. Possible it will help others. I have alot of time and probably could document.

There are pics of my cloudy pool. I guess I will take pics with the dull liner. I plan on trying the absorbic acid.

I may just close the pool this year. Its getting expensive with all the filter running on high. All the bleach. Now absorbic acid was $$.( Just ordered today) Now I need polyquat, and metal something. Then watch the PH, and no high chlorine....Uggg. Probably just going to screw it up more. But as soon as the Chlorine level drops Im swimming until the acid gets here.

After that who knows. Its costing me $500 in chemicals just to swim for 3 months and get the pool right. Heck its only 6000 gallons. Imagine I had 20000 like alot of folks here. Should have bought a yr beach pass for the Jersey shore and took the kids there. Unemployment if tuff. Well I am in it this far right??? Cant stop now....I dont know....

Ugggggg!!!!!

[Watermom]

You've come to far to throw in the towel at this point. Hang in there!

[posguy]

I may just close the pool this year.
Ugggggg!!!!!

Dont do it, when the temp rises again here in Jersey youll be happy you didnt give up. Just think of how much gas youll save driving to the shore.

[mbar]

When you put in the clarifier, are you turning off the pump at all? In the past I have used a "flocculant" and after letting it circulate for about 2 hours, I shut the filter off until the water is clear (this can be up to 48 hours) and there is a bunch of "stuff" on the bottom. Then I vacuum to waste and the water is clear. If the chlorine is holding, and the water is cloudy, you may just have to let the "stuff" sink to the bottom, and then vacuum to waste so it is out of the pool for good. Just my 2 cents, cause I know how frustrating it could be!