keeping up

[Beast]

MHi everyone. For the past 2 years I've been taking care of inlaws pool. Father in law had passed away, mother inlaw worrks full time, and brother inlaw is useless/doesn't want to keep up with it. My kids swim several times a week. Past 2 summers I do chem....etc. every summer pool is clear then turns green. I go to pool center, they test water and $$$$$ the water clears up. And few weeks later same cycle. I work a few jobs and usually can't get to check pool on regular basis. The pool is above ground 15x24 4feet deep. It has a de filter that I have set on a timer for 7 hours 9am till 4 ish. Pool is in sun alllll day. Is there such a way to make it more low matainance? Salt water maybe? All I want is clear water.........is it possible. Lol. Thanks in advance for reading. Am posting this from phone as kids are dominating the computer .

[PoolDoc]

If your pool is OK now, just maintain till you can get a testkit:

#1 - Order K2006 or 2006C kit -- Amazon links below -- and learn to use it.
#2 - Avoid pool store goop: if the pH is below 7.0, raise it; if it's above 7.8, lower it, other wise don't mess with "balance" for now.
#3 - Shock with 2 gallons of 6% household bleach every other evening, till we know more. Use 1/2 box of borax, added slowly to the skimmer with pump running, to RAISE pH. Use about 1 quart of muriatic acid (Lowes, Home Depot, hardware store) -- gloves, glasses, watch the fumes -- added to the POOL with the pump RUNNING, to LOWER pH.
#4 - Report free & total chlorine, and CYA levels once you get the kit.

More info, once you report.

Reasonable guesstimate of monthly ALGAE-FREE pool chemical costs once you get on your routine: $35

Ben

[Beast]

Thanks for the basic starter info....So far i ordered the kit and it gives me a June 9th - 14th window......I've added the 2 gallons of bleach every other night.....pool is no longer green ph with a basic tester shows 7.6 ish same kit was out of chlorine drops...pool water looks cloudy maybe milky is better. Found out that mother in law has added large bag of baking soda and some algecide to the pool because that's what she remembers seeing my father in law doing. Have been vacuuming and having to bump/ backwash filter as a loss of pressure...what a pain in the a@#. looks like it'll get hot here for a few days but then back to 70's (NYC) so I guess I have some time before kids start breaking my chops.....Thanks for help Internet is great for DIYers

[Watermom]

No big bags of anything at one time! Always small additions. No more algaecide. Algaecides are pretty good preventatives, but don't help a lot when algae is present. When we do recommend the use of algaecide, the only one we suggest is 60% Polyquat. No other types. Welcome to the forum!

[Beast]

Thanks for the welcome. Still waiting for the testing kit. Water is still super cloudy.Found the bottle of "algicide" mom in law threw in pool. its called hth algae guard 3x concentrate. I wish she would listen and not ad anything. Main ingredient in this bottle is alkyl (60%C14,30%C16,5%C12,5%C18)dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides.....15%
Alkyl (68%C12,32%C14)dimethyl ethylbenzyl ammonium chlorides.......15% and the rest inert
The filter itself has been bogging down...keep taking it apart and redoing the DE. Filter says add $lbs of DE when you prime it but that seems to bog it down. Today i cleaned it out and added 2 lbs and its running so much stronger. Is this OK? the gaskets and the filtering fingers seem to be fine... no tears or dried out rubber. So I hope that works better. I can't wait for this kit to show up so I can post some #'s for you guys/gals to help me with

[CarlD]

Mothers-in-Law are put on this Earth to keep us humble!

Do NOT put that stuff in your pool. You were fine and it all created problems. Pool care isn't magic, and there's really no guess-work about how to do it. It also doesn't have to be hard.

From your original post I'm guess you chlorinated with di-chlor powder or tri-chlor tablets. Mid-summer it goes green. Why? The powder and tabs add stabilizer far beyond what you need until the "standard" level of chlorine isn't high enough to kill algae--or sanitize your pool. Then the pool store plays "GOTCHA!" and takes multiple injections of $$$$. It's not hard to see what's happening. You need to figure out the B-B-B method and you will have a cleaner pool and spend a lot less time cleaning it up.

Over at Ben's other site, Poolsolutions.com, is this nice intro to the B-B-B method. It's really pretty simple:

http://poolsolutions.com/gd/the-BBB-method-of-swimming-pool-care.html

Carl

[Beast]

OK after a long wait for the test kit to come we finally have some #'s

Ph 7.4
CYA less than 30 (water was @ very top of tester and it was just out of sight)
TA 140ppm
FC .6ppm
CC 7.8
CH 100ppm

After reading an awesome post from Waste......I cleaned out the DE filter completely by soaking the fingers in cleaner for a few hours then in an muriatic acid bath for a few more. I could not believe the difference in flow. And BTW the mother in law struck again. After getting my Brother in law to add bleach( I asked him to do 2 gal and he did 1) she threw in a bag of shock. calcium hypo...? That was just about 24 hours before I got my water sample. Please just tell me what I need to do to get this pool water clear and get my mother in law from making faces at me....she loves giving the pool guy $$ Much Thanks in advance

[Watermom]

I'd like you to try the chlorine tests again. I sorta doubt that you have a CC reading of 7.8 and then repost.

[CarlD]

Your MIL actually didn't do anything wrong, by pure dumb luck. You hardness level is low enough that Cal-Hypo "shock" won't raise the CH level enough to matter, and it DOES add chlorine to the water.

Saw a joke on a political forum the other day describing someone's mind as being like a spare bedroom: Always made up and rarely, if ever, used. But she's smarter than you. Just ask her. She'll tell you.

Carl.

[Beast]

OK I retested the water and this time the FC came out to 7.2 and the CC came out to .4 the rest remained constant. since the filter was completly cleaned out the pool looks bright and blue. still cloudy (can't see the bottom) but feel encouraged by progress. and look forward to more progress.

[Watermom]

Since your pool is still cloudy, go ahead and continuing shocking the pool up to 15ppm. Test the water at least twice per day and more often is better and each time add enough bleach to get back to 15. Run your pump 24/7 and backwash as needed. I'd stay away from cal-hypo since your pool is cloudy. Bleach will not cause cloudy water problems.

[Beast]

Sorry it took so long to reply. just got home from work a 24 hr shift....added 2 gal of bleach today and will take readings in the afternoon tomorrow. How are the other levels?

[Watermom]

PH of 7.4 is good. CYA of 30 is ok but I prefer 40-50. You can worry about that after the pool is clear. TA is ok at 140 but you might want to lower it just a bit after this is cleared up. Click on the PoolSolutions Guides link in my signature. There is a guide to lowering alk in there. CH of 100 is ok but actually in a vinyl pool, you do not need calcium. If it gets too high it can contribute to cloudy water.

[Beast]

Just an update.... FC was around 5ppm this morning added bleach and raised it to about 10 ppm. I know its not 15 ppm yet will retest in about an hr and add more. Didn't want to add more bleach without giving it some time to adjust. The CC was barely .2ppm

[CarlD]

You'll save a lot of reagent if you test your chlorine at the 10ml level instead of the 25ml level. Then one drop = .5ppm instead of .2
For 99.99% of chlorine testing the .5 level is as close as you EVER need to be. I may have used the 25ml/.2 level twice in 10 seasons, and it must be five years since the last time.

Carl

[Beast]

Thats exactly what I started to do .... I was tired of 38 drops...lol. Just tested and now have FC of 14.5 CC <.5 and my Ph has dropped to 7.2. water seems to be a tad bit clearer and i just dropped the thermometer in and the water is 76*. Weather is supposed to be cool for next few days and back to 90 by weekend

[aylad]

Weather is supposed to be cool for next few days and back to 90 by weekend

wow, ours is in the low 100s and is supposed to cool off to the high 90s by the weekend!! :cool:

Janet

[Beast]

tested today.... FC was down to 7.5 after being 14.5 24 hours ago. Raised it back to 15 ish.. Ph is remaining @ 7.2

[Watermom]

How many times per day are you testing and adding more bleach?

[Beast]

most days once.....I try to test, add bleach, hang out for a while then add some more. Some days I can get there 2x and do same. few times I work 24 hour shifts so I get MIL to add a gal or 2. Its not ideal I know but some days its all I have time for.

[Beast]

OK its now Friday. just came home from a 24 hr shift and the water is still cloudy. I vacuumed and tested the FC @ 5.5 I added 2 gal of bleach and waited a bit and tested the FC @ 10 ppm. I didn't want to add a 3rd gall so quickly so I'll wait till tonight to take another reading and add some more. I figured by now the water would be clearing up but it hasn't. Is there something else I should be trying as well?

[Watermom]

With the weekend, are you home and able to test and add bleach every couple of hours?

[Beast]

sunday and monday yes. I can leave instructions with MIL for tom afternoon

[Watermom]

Three full days of testing and hitting it with bleach would probably put a big dent in solving your problem! Run pump 24/7 and watch pressure. Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

[Beast]

water is still cloudy. Found out MIL was at it again. This time she added more shock sodium tri..... and she threw in a "water clariffier" which contains clionic polymer? Whatever the heck that is. She has me ready to give up on her pool. Am being discouraged by her constant adding of stuff

[Watermom]

This is HER pool, right? Maybe you should ask her if she wants you to take care of it or her, but its not gonna be both. Perhaps have her read through this thread?

[Beast]

Yes its her pool. She wants help taking care of it but still wants to do a bunch herself. She works more hours than me sometimes 5 days a week. She tries to go off the top of her head what the FIL used to do and thats what doesn't help. He actually practiced the BBB method somewhat. When the pool cloudyness does finally clear up thats when she'll give in and at least give me some leway with chemicals. btw pool cloudyness hasn't changed. would it help if I were to raise the PH? It's currently holding @ 7.2. will check the #'s early in the AM

[Watermom]

Raising the pH wouldn't have an effect on the cloudiness.

[Beast]

OK leaving pH alone for now. dropping kids off @ school ....MIL went off to work then I can go work on pool. update around lunch time

[PoolDoc]

I'm not going to get into this one too much. Looks like Watermom and CarlD are giving you as much help as your MIL can stand. ;)

But here are two points to consider:

#1 - DE filters will remove most anything that makes pools cloudy, given time. If you can run your filter 24/7.

#2 - Live algae plugs DE filters pronto. If you've still got some, you need to kill it ASAP. Doing so will make clean up MUCH easier.

#3 - It's quite easy to cause some bizarre forms of cloudiness that are hard to filter even with DE, if you keep mixing mystery chemicals. If you can 'lose' or hide the MIL's chem stash, that would probably help.

[Beast]

I can see the bottom wooohoooo. I see patches of sand like debris on the bottom. Here are updated #'s
FC 12ppm
CC 6 ppm
pH 7.0
TA 80 ppm
CH 80 ppm
CYA 30-40 ppm closer to the 40

I've been able to run filter 12 hours a day (MIL keeps shutting the timer off)
have been back washing the DE filter and recoating the filter.
Will go back there after lunch to vacumm and take another Clorine reading.

I can see the light @ the end of the tunnell !!!!

And I've come to the conclusion that my FIL is acting through MIL frustrate me to death.....lol

[PoolDoc]

Hey beast,

I'm glad things are beginning to work for you, but please tone down the terms a bit. We pretty much operate on "must be OK in Sunday School" language standard here.

[Beast]

10-4 will try my best

[Beast]

Just an update... I CAN SEE THE BOTTOM !!! Wooohoooo. No more debris on the bottom. It took awhile but it totally cleared up. I think it would have probably cleared up faster if I would have cleaned the filter a little quicker and re-coated the DE a little more often. I have the FC around 4ppm as of yesterday. Also the pH was @ 7.0.......time to raise the pH. How much should i add @ a time till I get it to 7.6 ish?

[Watermom]

Great news! Congratulations! With your CYA at around 40, be sure to keep your chlorine between 3-6 ALL the time. If it dips below 3, you risk an algae bloom.

To work on raising the pH, I'd add about 1/3 of a box of Borax at a time. Pour it slowly into the skimmer while the pump is running, breaking up any clumps. Let the pump run for a couple of hours, retest and redose as needed.

[Beast]

Pool has been looking good. pH is up around 7.6 and FC is around 4......I found a liquid shock @ BJ's which is like a Costco or Sam's club if you've never heard of before. They have a case which consists of 4 one gal containers of liquid shock. 12% sodium hypo-chloride. The case is $12.99 which is about the same price I'd pay for bleach @ 6%. So is this stuff good and I just use a lesser quantity when raising the FC? And I guess finally with these #'s how often should i anticipate adding more.

[Watermom]

Bleach is 6% sodium hypochlorite, so that is the same stuff, just a higher concentration. Thus, you could be able to use approximately half as much to achieve the same affect -- assuming it really is 12%. Sometimes the higher concentrated stuff degrades faster so it may not actually be that potent.

As far as how often you'll have to add it, you'll just have to test and learn the pattern of your pool. For now, I'd test every evening and add enough to get back to about 6ppm. Then test the next evening and add enough to get back up to 6ppm. With a CYA of 40, you don't want it to drop below 3ppm.

[Beast]

10-4 thanks

[Beast]

I just want to say thanks again for all your help. I added the Borax about 1/4 of the box and by the next day the water was crystal clear. and now that it is crystal clear I notice sand or DE on the floor of the pool. The last time I took the filter apart I inspected the fingers pretty well I thought and everything looked perfect. I did notice that i was missing a screw and nut on the rubber connecting it to the cover. Could this one missing screw be enough to allow some DE through or is there something else I should be checking?

[Manslick]

I'd replace the screw on principle alone. But be sure to get the correct one. You have to get one that is designed for a chlorine pool filter. It may cost you $7.

Check to make sure you don't have too much DE in the filter. Back flush and weigh out the exact amount required.

[Beast]

i got that bolt in last week. not as much sand/DE in the pool as before but still some. i don't see any rips in the fingers at all. pH went down to 7.2 added more borax went up to 7.8. sparkling water. have been able to keep FC around 3 with adding 1/2 gal bleach every other day. I'm ecstatic with all the help I've gotten here. just wish i had more time to work on pool or come on here. work and kids are keeping me extremely busy

[Beast]

Just an update. Am keeping fc around 3.5 although it does dissipate rather quickly.
TA 130
Ch 90
Ph 7.4
Cya 40
Water temp avg 86 has been as high as 92 in the past few weeks.

=======================================

Lol I hit enter before I was done. Am mobile. Should I raise any other levels to slow the loss of FC or is it just the high temp that I'm contending with. Also I have to raise pH every other week

[Watermom]

You can try bumping your CYA up to 50.

Re: pH --- are you adding lots of water? Having lots of rain? Or using trichlor or dichlor?

[Beast]

we have had a day or 2 of rain. filled the pool about an inch a few weeks back. no other chemicals that I am aware of. I believe MIL is following my directions now.
only bleach @ %12 concentrate and Borax being added

[aylad]

If the TA of your fill water is lower than 130, then dropping your TA down to the 80-90 range may help stabilize your pH. If the TA of the fill water is 130, though, I wouldn't bother since it would be a never-ending battle to keep it low.

You can also raise your pH with aeration--putting in a fountain, or a pool full of splashing kids? :)

Janet