Free chlorine is non existent

[Mdpools]

Ph and alk are now good. CYA is at the low end. Hardness is a bit high.

I have dumped in a total of 27 Bags of shock in the past week. 8 bags last night. This morning free chlorine still does not register. Water has been tested at the pool store twice in the past week. I have bumped up the alk and ph as a result.

Help!!

Thank you.

[PoolDoc]

Can you post your complete test results?

Also, can you tells us (1) what your approximate CYA level was last fall, and (2) what your water LOOKS like right now?

Ben

[CarlD]

Hi and welcome. Mdpools as in you're a doctor who has a pool?

Let's start at the beginning.
We'll need some info. Try to get us what you can.
We need the actual tests and the values measured. We vary as to what "good" means. Tests should include:
Free Chlorine (FC)
Combined Chloramines (CC)
Total Chlorine (TC)
pH
Total Alkalinity (TA, T/A, Alk)
CYA (Cyanuric Acid, Stabilizer, Conditioner)
Calcium Hardness (Total Hardness, CH, TH)
What kind of pool do you have?
What is the volume (in gallons)? If you don't know and can estimate the cubic footage, multiply that number by 7.48 to get gallons.
What kind of pump and filter do you have? What size of each?

Also what is in the chemicals you are using. "Shock" is actually a verb. There is no substance called "shock". It could be Di-Chlor powder, Cal-Hypo Powder, Tri-chlor powder, or Lithium Hypochlorite powder.

What are you testing with? If you are using DPD chlorine test kit, high chlorine can bleach out the test and make it look like you have no chlorine when you have lots of it. the cheapie OTO tests just go from yellow to orange to brown--no bleaching.

So get us what you can and we can give an opinion of what's going on and what we think you should do.

[Mdpools]

Thanks for the posts. User name means I live in MD and have a pool. Not very original, I know.

Pool is in ground. 30k gallons. DE filter.

Ok results from test 1.

CYA is 10
Tot chlorine is 3.1
Free chlorine is 0.8
ph is 6.9
Alk is 87
Hardness is 265
That is all they listed.

Put in 16 lbs of Balance pak 100 to bring up alk
Put in 2 lbs of ph up
Put in 6 lbs of CYA

Put in 15 bags of burn out extreme (calcium hypochlorite)
38 oz of algaecide

Do not have CYA from last fall. Pool water is crystal clear.



==============================
5 days later.

Sat index is minus 0.7 no change from previous
TDS is 1700 (was 1600)
Tot chlorine is 1
Free chlorine is 0
Ph is 7
Alk is 78 (went down)
Hardness is 246

Put in 22 lbs of alk up (balance pak 100)
1 lb of ph up
8 bags of calcium hypo (granular shock)

Using test strips. Showing no free chlorine.


[ combined multiple posts - moderator ]

[PoolDoc]

Ok, that's enough for a start.

#1 - Stop trusting your dealer (BioGuard?); stop worrying about alkalinity or pool "balance", at least for now.
#2 - ignore your TDS results.
#3 - get a cheap OTO / phenol red test kit (Walmart, whatever)
#4 - get 20 gallons of plain 6% household bleach; start adding them 5 gallons at a time IN THE EVENING within 2 hours of sunset.
#5 - use your OTO kit to test 1 hour after adding bleach, and again in the AM, but no more than 2 hours after sunrise.
#6 - report results here.
#7 - keep your pH between 7 and 7.8, but do not use any other chemicals.
#8 - if it can fit your budget, get a K2006 or 2006C kit for future testing (Amazon links below)

Ben

[CarlD]

I have good news and bad news for you.
1) The good news is you can replace pH Up and Balance Pak 100 cheaply.
2) The bad news is pH Up is EXACTLY the same chemical as Arm&Hammer Washing Soda (in the yellow box) for $.80lb and Balance Pak 100 is EXACTLY the same chemical as Arm&Hammer Baking Soda in the orange box, also about $.80/lb. And both are in your supermarket.
3) More good news: Ben is always right, unless we disagree, in which case I'm right (JUST KIDDING, BEN!) You can't go wrong following his advice. Ben left out that to raise your pH, which he told you to do, you should use Borax (20 Mule Team Borax). Borax is usually right next to washing soda in the supermarket. If Ben wants you to raise pH by alternate means he'll update this.

Carl

[Mdpools]

Having a hard time replying to thread from iPad. Anyway I completed steps 1-5. The first reading after the initial 5 gallons of bleach was 7.2 ph and 1.5 chlorine. I will update this thread as things progress. Thank you guys.

[PoolDoc]

Sounds good. -ben

[Mdpools]

Night 2. Five more gallons of bleach. Reading 1 hour later are ph 7.2 and chlorine 1.0.

Next day chlorine is still very low. Will continue for 2 more days.

Question, any idea what is eating up all the chlorine? Going back to the 20 plus bags I put in last week? Very curious about that. Thanks.

[PoolDoc]

Without stabilizer, you can lose 90% of the chlorine in your pool (regardless of how much is there) in 2 hours of full sun. There are lots of variables here -- how clear is your water, how "full" is the sun, how deep is the pool -- but you get the idea, I hope.

Also, if you HAD stabilizer in your pool last year and didn't, when you opened this year, and did NOT drain your pool, you may be WORSE than unstabilized: you may have no stabilizer AND have ammonia left over which bacteria 'pooped' out after eating your stabilizer.

Best way to check: add chlorine late in the day; test levels an hour later and then again in the morning within 2 hours of sunrise. If there's a big difference, you have some sort of goo in the pool that's using up your chlorine.

In general: lose chlorine at night = goo; lose chlorine during day = many things but often, no/low stabilizer.

Ben

[Mdpools]

Thanks. Adding CYA may help?

[aylad]

Yes, if you're losing your chlorine to the sun. CYA and stabilizer are the same thing. Also called "balancer", "conditioner", look at the ingredient label. If the main ingredient is cyanuric or isocyanuric acid, it's the right stuff.

However, if you're losing your chlorine to stuff in your water, the stabilizer isn't going to help you much.

Janet

[Mdpools]

Houston, we have a problem. I am losing chlorine overnight. Please advise on next steps.

I presume the following. Drain the pool as much as possible. Open up the filter and throughly clean the grids.

Refill and chlorinate/stabilize

Experts please help.

I have owned this pool for 10 years. The first 8 years were a breeze. The last 2 have been difficult. The issue this year has never happened before.

Thanks!

[CarlD]

I would start by putting in 7 gallons of 6% bleach tonight--that should push your FC to around 15ppm.
In the morning be prepared to add up to 7 gallons more and keep FC up until it doesn't drop so drastically overnight.

Carl

[Mdpools]

OK will do.

Local pool shop suggested I check for phosphorous. They checked a sample. It registered at 1000 ppb. They gave me a chemical that reduces the phosphorous. I will try that. Anyone have any experience with this?

[PoolDoc]

Yes, we are familiar with it.
No, you shouldn't use it -- it won't do ANYTHING to solve your current problem.

The fact that several days ago your chlorine went to 1 ppm in just an hour after a large dose tells me you have a VERY high chlorine demand, most likely from ammonia. Please read this page:
spring-swimming-pool-startup-problems.html (http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/spring-swimming-pool-startup-problems.html)

It's possible to have NO stabilizer (so you lose chlorine during the day) AND ammonia (so you lose chlorine day AND night).

Draining 100% and refilling is an option.
Draining 50% will remove 50% of the ammonia

If you don't remove it all, you'll have to add bleach till you destroy all the ammonia gone. Since I don't know how much ammonia you have, I don't know how much more bleach it will take.

But, if you aren't going to drain, do like Carl says, and add larger doses at night. Once you see high chlorine in the morning, you are close to being done.

Ben

[Mdpools]

Carl/Ben: Thanks. I will stay the course with massive doses of bleach night and day until I can get the FC up. I also bumped up the ph a bit as recommended in the link.

Oh man, these pool stores...all they want to do is...well...sell us chemicals and make money. : (

I really do not want to drain and refill.

[Mdpools]

Happy to report that, for the first time this season, my pool is holding a FC level in the morning.

Ph is 7.6
Chl is 3.0

Friday night I added bleach. Sat morning the FC was still weak. Sat I added borax to bump up the ph followed by more bleach. Sat night I added more beach and finally Sunday morning things are good. I have also been running the pump 24/7 since Friday.

Now on to the phosphorous. Should I attack this as a separate issue or are you saying I can ignore this? Thanks much.

[Watermom]

Glad to here of the progress. I'd go ahead and smack it hard with bleach one more day. If you again maintain FC over night without losing more than 1ppm, then you should be ok. Don't worry about the phosphorous. It is usually just another way for pool stores to drain their customers wallets selling them phophate removers.

[Mdpools]

All is good here. I hit the pool with another dose of bleach last night. The pool continues to hold a good free chlorine level in the morning. Thanks for all the help. I am glad I found this web site!

[Watermom]

Great to hear! Keep up the good work!