Just Set Up Pool...Need some pointers

[JSMANNING0001]

I just found this forum this morning and have been reading ALL DAY! Very Informative and helpful! I will be bookmarking!

Anyways, the closest I have ever come to owning a pool is filling up the bath! It only requires bubbles so I was able to manage that :) .

We just set up an Intex Ultra 16' x 48" with like a 5900 gal capacity.

Water is almost full as we speak. When I get off work I will be heading to Walmart to get the BBB and a test kit...

I some what understand what to use for which problems thanks to this forum. My first question is...once testing is completed what is the first chemical I add? Do I start with my bleach? How do I know how to add for the levels to be achieved? Once I add the required bleach how long do I have to wait to add the next thing - Borax or Acid? I am hoping I only have to use Borax. I have city water which is actually filling my pool and causing a brackish color. I read that was normal even with city water....hoping thats correct. Kinda scary to know I make my babies bottle with that water...

Anyways, after getting in my bleach and other chemicals needed. When do I add the Stabilizer? A friend told me not to use bleach but to use the chlorine from walmart that contained a stabilizer just because it would help it to stay longer... My pool is in FLORIDA in the direct sun!

After adding cholorine WITH stabilizer (if anyone knows the name please feel free to post it) and then the borax assuming it will need to be brought up, how long do I have to wait before we can swim?

If we do the bleach with stabilzer tablets, how long after the tablets are put in can we swim? Is it a matter of a time frame or the actual numbers evening out as needed? If using tablets and bleach, do I just continue to 'sock' the tablets and use them AS NEEDED every few weeks or what?

Sorry to be so long winded and ask so many questions? I've learned a lot on this board but didn't seem to understand this part!

[aylad]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!!

The best thing to do is get your test kit and run a set of tests on your fill water and post them here, and then we can help you go from there regarding which chems you'll need. It will also help us know if you can use the trichlor pucks (the chlorine pucks with stabilizer in them) or not. If WalMart has the 6-way drop test, get that one. If not, then at least get the cheapie OTO test that just tests for chlorine and pH. Drop testing is WAY more reliable than strips. The best kit to get is actually the K2006, which you can order through Amazon in the link in my sig and the forum gets a donation from the sale. That kit contains most everything you'll need throughout your pool season, with accurate results.

So...get a test kit, test your fill water, and post results here. You'll first need to add bleach (gotta get some chlorine in to keep it from going green), and you'll want to target 3-6 ppm, since right now you don't have any stabilizer. In a 5900 gallon pool, each 2 cups of 6% bleach you add will raise your chlorine level by approximately 1 ppm, so you can use that as a guide. Add it either into your skimmer, or in front of the return. You have no stabilizer in the water for now, so the sun will consume your chlorine pretty quickly, so plan on adding more at least once a day until the stabilizer (also called CYA) is in the pool.

You can either add your chlorine via bleach, and buy the CYA (stabilizer) seperately at WalMart, Lowe's, Home depot, etc. or you can use the trichlor tablets which are chlorine with stabilizer. The downside to trichlor is that it will significantly lower your pH, which is why I want to know the pH of your fill water before recommending them. Also, once your stabilizer gets to the level it needs to stay, you'll need to switch to a non-stabilized form of chlorine. The pH issue can be addressed by adding Borax to raise it, if need be--but again, we need to know a starting point.

If you use the stabilized tablets, they are normally put in a floater--but you don't want them to float next to your liner, or you'll probably end up with fading. Many people recommend to anchor it from both sides with string or rope to keep it in the middle. If you use the floater, I would recommend that you take it out while the pool is in use. With the high chlorine content and low pH, it could be damaging to little eyes if they get into a pocket of the trichlor, and the floater may appear to be a toy. If you remove the floater, and stir the water up well, you can swim immediately.

If using tabs and bleach, you'll keep the tabs in the floater, test your water daily, and add whatever bleach is needed to maintain that 3-6 ppm level, at least until you have some stabilizer in the water. The higher the CYA level gets, the higher you'll need to keep your chlorine. See the "Best Guess" chart link in my sig for a guideline to use. I live in Louisiana and tend to run my CYA higher than most, but I find that I use less chlorine in the long run than those who keep theirs at 40 or so. Just depends on the pool, but you can always decide that later. If you decide to buy CYA seperately, you'll want to target about 30 ppm or so, and add it via sock tied in front of your return. It will take a few days to dissolve and register, though, so you'll need to be diligent about adding chlorine daily until then. You never want it to get to zero.

This is a start--hope it helps. I know this method seems very overwhelming at first, but hang in there-- it's really very easy, and way, way less expensive than the pool store method!!

Edit: Also, if you do decide to use the trichlor pucks, don't get them from WalMart without checking the label. If one of the ingredients is copper, stay away from them, and get them from somewhere else. Our WalMart pucks contain copper, which you don't want. I get mine from the pool store when they go on sale....

Janet

[Watermom]

One other thing that I might mention -------------- when I first put up my pool years ago, I couldn't believe how fast the chlorine would disappear. i found that if I added some in the morning, it was gone by afternoon. So, in addition to the good advice Janet gave you, i would suggest that for a week or so until you get some stabilizer to register, you'll probably find that you need to add bleach at least a couple of times a day. After there is some stabilizer buildup, then you'll be able to test and dose in the evenings only.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for becoming a subscriber. We appreciate the support!

[madwil]

one more note- Dichlor powder (sold as "POOL SHOCK" at Walmart I think) will also add stabilizer, but without the pH shifts from trichlor- comes in 1 pound bags, just like the trichlor make sure no copper!
once CYA levels are established, this should also shift to bleach for chlorine, or to much CYA will be in the pool eventually.

[CarlD]

Please! This is not true!

Di-Chlor WILL lower your pH of your pool, just not as much as Tri-Chlor. I cannot reconstruct all the chemistry for you, but the gist is, that while Di-Chlor itself is neutral, the reaction from the chlorine lowers pH. I'm sure our chem whiz, Chem_Geek can show the chemical equations to demonstrate, but from my empirical experience I know it to be true.

Bleach is actually a high pH chemical, but the same reaction of the chlorine lowering pH just offsets the increasing effect of the Bleach. This is why Bleach/Liquid Chlorine is the ONLY pH neutral chlorine source.

Carl

[JSMANNING0001]

Thank you both! Got the pulled filled last night...let the baby play while it was filling up (figured since it was freshly running it was no different than the tub for those few hours...) Turned the pump on and added 38% of bleach around 12 am before I went to bed and it had finally finished filling.

WALMART only had the strips and a cheap Chlorine/pH test so I got both just for a general idea on the other things as I know the strips are not very useful. But the moment they are the only option till this afternoon when I drive an hour to our pool store... (We are in the sticks). Walmart was out of borox. I use it for my husbands uniforms so I knew where to find it but they are usually out and was out last night. I did get a 12 lb bag of baking soda that was in the pool isle as it said it raises pH....NEEDLESS to say doesn't look like I will need it...

Test results this morning (after adding 38oz of bleach last night):
Chlorine: about 1 (hard to read the color changed on the test I bought from walmart)
pH: 7.6-7.8

According to the strips"
Total Hardness: between low and high- stupid strip doesn't give and ok leval for nonplaster pools...seems to be closer to the higher end then the lower
TC: ok-1
FC: low - .75
pH: HIGH. 7.8-8.4
Total Alkalinity: between low and very low
Stabilizer: ok - how is this possible when I haven't added any? Is it from the city water?


Called the pool store, like I was saying will be buying a better test that tests everything with drops later today. I just added about 12oz of chlorine since it was low.

ALSO, when I woke up this morning about 8 hours after filling the pool it looked like someone had taken a cup of motor oil and threw over in the pool on the bottom. It is a brown dust that can not be picked up. I just swirled my skim net around and it dissolved. Pump ran all night. With that being said, as I filled it with my 'fabulous' city water it did have a brackish tent. This morning that tent is GONE! Good thing of coarse. However, could this brown spot have been setiment from the water or dust/pollen. Live on a dirt road in the woods. There was nothing floating in the skimmer but there was a slight ring around the inside of the skimmer that I rubbed off. The water had dropped about an 1/2 inch apparently and so I had to rub it but there was no goo or feel to it.

Thanks and sorry to be so long winded!

Oh yeah, I also bought the Aqua Chem Liquid Chlorinzor but then wasn't sure if that was the same thing as bleach or if it had a CYA so I didn't add it.... Is this the same thing as bleach?

[JSMANNING0001]

Just checked it again after about 45 min of adding the extra chlorine and the levels are even lower. almost clear for the immediate free chlorine and total chlorine...I would say about .3 for TC....is this cause I'm just setting it up and because of the beautiful day with abundant sunshine? Should I say heck with it and poor a whole bottle?

[JSMANNING0001]

Sorry for so many questions! I hope I don't get the boot soon! Anyways, we got the pool set up last night, numbers are...

pH 7.8
CC: 1

my strips say that the 'hardness is high' and the stabilizer is ok. It also says I have 0 calcium.

Since we just set it up last night and it's such a beautiful day my niece is dying to get in! Is it safe for her to get in?

I added another 12 oz of bleach this morning about 3-4 hours ago because it won't stay up. Will this hurt anything?

[aylad]

We don't mind questions!!

Your strips are contradictory--"hardness" refers to calcium hardness, and it can't be "high" if the calcium is zero. Also, your stabilizer can't be "ok" if you haven't added any, because until you put some in, it's going to be zero. THat's why we like drop testing!!

At any rate, If the water is clear, and the chlorine level is less than 6 but at least 1, it should be fine for your niece to get in.

Enjoy! :)

Janet

[CarlD]

OK, forget about calcium. You have a vinyl pool, calcium is therefore not important. For now, ignore Total Alkalinity as well. In fact you may not have to worry about it at all.

The "OK" indicators on strips and some testers are to be ignored. Correct FC levels are absolutely related to the CYA (Stabilizer) level in the water. Strips frequently don't give the same reading as drop tests. Trust the drop test kit first.

For now, only worry about pH, FC and CC levels, and CYA. Nothing else really matters for you (later, you'll know why, but for now let's just stick to these 3).

Carl

[JSMANNING0001]

Thanks Carl...I will stick with those ... I didn't think that calcium mattered from reading everything on here but when I called the pool place to see if they had the kits I was looking for before I drove an hour their, I read her my stick and she said I needed to get calcium in right away or the water being to hard would rust/eat my pump up along with my metal.... guess not?

I am mainly focussing on the pH FC and CC levals and gonna put in some CYA tonight in a sock. Can I just hang it from the ladder which is about 3 foot away from part that puts the water back in the pool (sorry still get used to the lingo..) I really don't have a way to hang it around the part that shoots it out as it is almost flat....do I have to run my pump 24/7 with that?

Do I need to get the cc/cya levels right and then worry about pH? My pH is currently around 7.8...will get better reading tonight with the better strips.

Gonna go add about 35oz of bleach cause it's showing almost clear with no faint signs of yellow....can't keep the choline in their to save my life... then again...can't hardly understand this $5 drop test from walmart. barely has any shade variance. :(


EDIT: Added the 35oz of chlorine and checked immediatly... ;) .... it said 5ppm I know that was too soon to test and I tested on the other side of the pool but I just had to see if that thing was working cause I can't seem to get it above 1ppm. How soon after adding bleach should I actually be testing?

[Watermom]

I don't think you are adding enough bleach at a time. In a 5900 gallon pool, each quart (32 oz.) of 6% bleach will only increase the chlorine level by 2.5ppm. Adding only 12 oz. at a time isn't going to give you much chlorine ---- especially since with no CYA in there, it is going to quickly be lost to the sun. I think you better start adding larger doses of bleach at a time or your freshly filled pool will soon turn green! It doesn't take long for that to happen. My suggestion is to add a 3 qt. bottle of bleach which will take it up to about 7.6ppm, but it won't stay there long. In a matter of hours, it will fall. Test it around 3x per day if you can and each time add enough bleach to get back to around 6 or so. Doesn't have to be precise. After you start to get a CYA reading, you should be able to test and dose in the evenings only.

To answer a few of your questions, you can test the chlorine a couple hours after you add it. You can add the CYA to a sock and hang it in front of a return. I don't think I'd hang it from a metal ladder. It is probably best to leave the pump running while the sock is hanging to speed up how fast the cya will dissolve. You can also give it a squeeze a couple of times a day as that will also speed things up. Another method for adding it is to add it directly into the skimmer (slowly) and let it dissolve in your filter. That is what I do. After doing so, I usually run my pump 24/7 for a couple of days. Also, don't backwash the filter for up to a week or else you'll just throw the CYA out with the waste water.

You are ok with pH of 7.8 but no higher. I'd wait a day or two and get a couple more readings. Adding the CYA may cause it to come down a little. If after a few days it is still reading 7.8, you might want to consider using a little muriatic acid to lower it. But, let's just wait a bit on that.

[CarlD]

"she said I needed to get calcium in right away or the water being to hard would rust/eat my pump up along with my metal.... guess not?"

Correct! She was SO wrong she was contradicting herself! Adding calcium makes the water HARDER not softer. (that's why the test is called "Calcium Hardness") And hard water causes scaling that damage metal. It's usually water that's too acid or too alkaline that eats metal.

Carl

[JSMANNING0001]

Got my test in...she sold hubby moriatic acid to lower it...told me 2 cups to lower it 0.4...however I was 7.8-8.0. I did the math according to the book that come with my kit, it only needed about 1 1/2 cups ...that dropped it down to 7.2...glad I didn't put the full two cups in....is that ok? or should I know add baking soda to bring it back up.

As for the CYA, I couldn't find anything that said clarifier, condistioner or stabilizer. I did buy 1" chlorinating tabs. It says kills bacteria and controls algae... Janet told me to get Tri-chlor tabs...I guess I expected it to says that ...oops :( I found those tabs and got them because it says trichloro-s-triazinetrione 99.%..... Is this right? How many should I use...I forgot to get a floater so I can just put them in a sock, hang them from my ladder and still swim....do I need to keep adding bleach for a couple days or with those start adding chlorine right away? I know the CYA will take a while.... also..just to make sure, can we swim with them in there? How often should I add?

Current Readings:
FC: 0
TC: 0
CC: 0

pH: 7.2-7.3
TA : 120

Walmart is out of Borax as usual and I do have baking soda but that will raise the pH & TA won't it? Should I use it and add the tri-chlor?



Also, I have noticed today....that when I take my sample, after letting my arm dry it burns a little...could be my dry skin but it hasn't been bothering me...and it only burns on the area that was wet..nothing serious just a little noticable...could this be from no chlorine or my pH too low?

[madwil]

pH at 7.2 is not to low- 7.2 to 7.8 is the good range (so 7.2 is the low end, but not excessive)
The tabs will gradually add Cl and CYA as they dissolve, continue to monitor FC and add bleach to maintain your Cl levels
Your pH should rise over time, but watch it- the trichlor (the pucks are trichlor) can cause it to go down- so you may need to use some borax initially to boost it/keep it above 7.2.
Once the CYA is in, you should quit using the tabs and the pH will start to rise...
you can add the baking soda if nothing else, but it doesn't add as much pH as borax and will also increase TA more...
not sure about the skin burning- may be just the dry skin getting acclimated, but may be something in water- the chlorine will kill it if its something in the water

[CarlD]

You can raise pH by aeration and that will NOT raise t/a.
Aeration can be done by a fountain, by splashing 12 year olds, by pointing the return(s) as the surface so the water ripples or bubbles.

Your chlorine is 0. This is never good. Add bleach or some form of chlorine immediately, up to shock level. I'd add a full gallon of bleach right now. That should get your FC up to the 10-12 range which is the shocking level for 0 CYA.

Carl

[aylad]

I did buy 1" chlorinating tabs. It says kills bacteria and controls algae... Janet told me to get Tri-chlor tabs... I found those tabs and got them because it says trichloro-s-triazinetrione 99.%..... Is this right?

Yes, those are trichlor tabs. You'll do better to put them in a floater, because if you hang them from a sock next to your liner, you're going to get fading of the liner from the acidity of the tabs. Also, I would remove them from the pool while swimming so that you don't accidentally swim into a pocket of concentrated trichlor, which would be very uncomfortable, and possibly damaging, to your eyes.

You did a good thing by testing your pH and adding acid accordingly, not just blindly following the pool store's advice. That's what we're trying to teach people here to do. Good job!

I agree with Carl, though--get some chlorine of some type into that pool ASAP before you end up with an algae bloom!!

Janet

[JSMANNING0001]

Well, I got the tri-chlor tabs but were too chicken to use them, afraid I would mess something up... I did go back after researching online to find what i was looking for the...the purple label of stabilizer that was way over my reach so I didn't see it.

I added about 33 oz by measuring cup since i couldn't do the 32 oz by weight. I hung it in a stocking off the return last night and well, playing with it today i noticed it dissolved easily so I played with it for about 10 min and got it all dissolved and was being shot across the pool by the water from the return. I added 40 oz of bleach and we will see how it does tomorrow. I can't check the levels at 4am when I got to work but I can check around 6 pm. To niece she could not swim as I didn't know what the water would be like tomorrow and could not test the bleach. I will test EVERYTHING tomorrow. Since the cya is all dissolved will it be safe to check it tomorrow or wait a few more days....?

Sorry for not waiting for yall's answers.... I went with Janet's original help which I planned on from the git-go but couldn't find what i was needing... I found it and did it! Hopefully things will get better.

Also, pump has been running for over 24 hrs and I titled the return up to bubble the water this evenign...guess i need to keep it going 24/7 till eveything evens out?

Now, as long as my arm don't fall off tonight from having it in the HIGHLY concentrated, cloudy levels of cya being dissolved around my arm, then hopefully I will be back on here tomorrow evening with some test results!


Thank you all....

[madwil]

sounds like you're on the right track. I would wait a few days to test the CYA, as it often doesn't show on the test for up to a week. work to maintain your pH and Cl for now, and post the full set of numbers and we'll let you know if you need anything else! Good luck- tell your niece she should be swimming real soon!

[aylad]

If your CYA is completely dissolved, and the pump has been running all night, then it's okay to go ahead and test your CYA. You'll need to have an idea of how high it is so you can adjust your chlorine levels accordingly. We do tell people sometimes it takes up to a week for it to register, but that's when it's added via skimmer and takes a week or so in the filter to dissolve and show up in the water. If yours was dissolved directly into the water, then you should be able to get an accurate level by later today.

Janet

[JSMANNING0001]

WOO HOO! Seems like everything is on a rolll....for the good... at least till the storms hit to night and it gets yucky rain water...anyways here are my readings...

FC 2
TC 1.5
pH 7.4
TA 70
CH 110
CYA 45 (in between 45-50. Not sure if the dot was supposed to be fully disappeared. It started getting invisible around 50 but could still faintly see it. Not sure how if it literally had to be gone..... if so it was 45)

I HAVE NOT ADDED CHLORINE since last night!!! WOO HOO! While it's not the greatest levels, it did stick. I would usually go out at lunch time and my reading would be clear...absolutely nothing! Do I need to add anymore? Anything I should do for this storm coming?

Now, what should I do about my TA? I would say baking soda but my pH is right on target. my TA has been running about 120-125 until...I am guess, I added the stabilizer...it dropped since then.

Does the low CH pretty mush refer to hard water just like in a bath? If so that might explain the weird feeling like hard water we were getting yesterday in the shower after getting out. It was a sticky/non slip feeling on my skin and when I touched my hubby and the baby in the pool.... how do I soften my water?

Thanks and I look forward to the feed back! THANK you guys so much for the help... I was a little terrified of the CYA thing as I was afraid I would go over or not enough though my main concern was going over....

[Watermom]

Yes, you need to chlorine. With a CYA of 45, you need to keep the cl between 3-6 all the time. Since you have dipped below that and also since you have 0.5 CC, I'd suggest shocking the pool again. Since you just added the CYA yesterday, I'd still wait until about Sunday or so and then retest for it again to make sure you have the final reading on how much is in there.

You can use a little baking soda to bump your alk up just a bit. Baking soda won't cause a big jump in your pH and even if it does come up just a little, that will still be fine. Add about a half a pound at a time and then retest after it has circulated for at least several hours. See how much it increases and then you can decide whether you need to add a little more. Aim for between 80-110 or so. Your calcium hardness reading is just fine.

[JSMANNING0001]

Thanks... I am new to this whole thing so can you explain shocking... I have 1 1/2 Big bottles of Clorox and a bag of POOLIFE Turbo Shock treatment. it says 78% available chlorine with 22% other ingredients. Says a minimum available chlorine of 75%.

It's about a 3lb bag but doesn't say. Will the calulator tell me how much to add? What would this be called? How often/ when should I shock. The bag suggest once a week but I'm not sure...(Obviously follow instructions but since the company has a lot to gain by every pool in the world shocking once a week I am wondering if that is necessary...)

Can you please tell me what merits a shocking? Is it something that I should do regularly or under certain situations...

Sorry for so many questions just not sure. Also the bags says I shouldn't shock unless the CH is 220 ppm or more!?!?!

Do I broadcast the granules in the pool as instructed? Just want to make sure it won't hurt the floor....

[madwil]

Shocking your pool isn't required, except when you have issues; many people, who maintain their Cl/CYA ratio, never shock at all!
Shocking just means to raise your FC up to shock level, and maintain it there until you pass the overnight drop test and have <.5 CC
Personally, if your water is clear, and you didn't let the FC stay low long (less then 6-8 hours maybe), I'd just raise FC to above 5 and keep it there- but Watermom is more proactive and shocks before problems...
I wait and try to "squeeze under the curve" of problems...
As far as the POOLIFE bag, we need to know the actual chemical name of it to tell you how good it is (or isn't)

[JSMANNING0001]

All the bag says is .... POOLIFE Turbo Shock treatment. it says 78% available chlorine with 22% other ingredients. Says a minimum available chlorine of 75%.

[CarlD]

Poollife Turbo Shock is actually Calcium Hypochlorite--Cal-Hypo. Unless your calcium hardness level is high, it's fine to use it, BUT DON'T MIX IT WITH ANYTHING ELSE! VERY DANGEROUS! (but you can safely put it in your pool when you've been using other chlorine methods. Just don't pour bleach over it, or put it in the skimmer with tabs already there).