I Need Help!

[hmoroz]

I just moved into a house with a green pool. The previous owner left no information about they system. I know it is a Hayward Sand Filter with a Hayward Control Valve. Every time I try to run the filter, water comes out of the the waste line, no matter which setting the control valve is on. I need ideas before I dump more money into this house it is already costing me a small fortune to fix!
Thank You

[aylad]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!!

I'm sure the equipment experts will chime in here shortly, but my first suggestion would be to take the faceplate off the multiport and see if the inside is intact, or possibly cracked, which would let water through as if it were set to "waste", no matter where the setting.

Janet

Here's a link Pooldoc posted to the inside of the multiport with the gasket taken off. The plastic channels you see there are what I was referring to...http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?10989-Photo-resurrection-2006-multiport-gasket-install

[hmoroz]

I took the face flate off and it seems the spider gasket may need to be replaced, it seems stretched out and not sitting properly in the "track". Also, in that top picture it seems that one of the openings has a plastic piece covering it, i do not recall seeing that, i'll have to look again. Is it possible that the gasket is the problem?

[PoolDoc]

Yep. A failed spider gasket can let water go everywhere.

Ben

PS. Replacing a spider gasket successfully is tricky, and none of the aftermarket glues to hold the gasket in place work like the OEM stuff. Consider replacing the valve if that's not too hard. If you clean the channel the gasket rests in very carefully, clear silicone will probably hold the gasket in place for a season. Do NOT use too much. If "Waste" sees this thread, he may have a better suggestion.

[hmoroz]

There does not seem to be anything actually trying to hold the spider in place. Or should I say no residue of what should be holding it in place. So, I should just replace the whole valve? Is that hard? My husband is a truck driver and rarely home so I tend to tackle this stuff on my own!!!

[hmoroz]

So it would be best to replace the whole control valve? It may or may not be important, but there seems to be no trace of any type of silicone or anything where the spider gasket is supposed to sit. Also, is it hard to replace the control valve? My husband is a truck driver and I usually try to tackle these types of projects myself. And if I were to try to just do the gasket, is it someting I can purchase anywhere or is it a pool store type item?
Thank You

[aylad]

I usually get my replacement gaskets from the pool store, haven't seen them anywhere else. I usually end up going through a new gasket each season. I don't think replacing the control valve is a big deal--the one time we've replaced ours, it came in one piece and hubby installed it--and he's not at ALL mechanically inclined. :) So I think it should be pretty easy....

Janet

[hmoroz]

Thank you so much for the help! I'll try the gasket first and then go from there. I'm sure I will be back to try to make the transformation from green to useable! This is a great forum with a ton of good advice!

[waste]

Welcome to the Forum!

Glad you were able to find good advice to help you. As long as you're trying the gasket first, try it without gluing or siliconing it down Al (Poconos) and I had a discussion about this a few years ago and I still say I never had a problem not securing the gasket in place, as long as the channels it sits in are in good shape. If you glue it in and the channels are shot, you'll ~ wreck the gasket trying to peel it back out. If no glue doesn't solve the problem, then by all means put some glue or silicon on it and try again. If that still doesn't work, it's time for a new multiport valve. [I don't seem to be able to get the advanced search function to work for me...???]

If you don't remember a double section being blocked off, you may have the older 6- spoke gasket (as opposed to the newer 5 spoke gaskets) - double check before getting the new one, as the part # you're looking for is the same for both the 5 and 6 spoke gasket. The part # is SPX710D for multiports with 1 1/2" piping and SPX715D for multiports with 2" piping.

One last thing, when you put the multi back together you'll notice that there is a flat (vertically) side to one of the 1/2 moon protrusions where the screws go on both the body of the valve and the top plate - be sure they match up! so that the valve is oriented properly.

Please let us know how things work out for you and feel free to ask any more questions you have.

[hmoroz]

Okay... I got the new gasket in, with no glue Waste : ), and now all is working well. I have the filter running right now, for several hours already. So, what is my next step? I read the BBB method and I thought I saw that it says for salt pools, which mine is not. Should I go for the BBB method?

[hmoroz]

Also, as my pool seems to have been sitting for at least a year or more with no attention paid to it, the algea is really really bad. As it is filtering all the nasty stuff out, should I be backwashing daily? Also, my waste line just shoots out toward my neighbors fence. I don't really want to vaccum to waste due to this fact, it okay to consistently vaccum to the filter? Thanks in advance!!!

[aylad]

Your next step is to run a set of tests on your water so we can tell what needs to be added. In the meantime, pick up several gallons of plain, unscented bleach.

The BBB method can be used for any non-Bacquacil pool-- it basically means understanding what's happening in your pool and what chem is needed to correct it, and knowing most of the things you need can be bout at the grocery store, not at the pool store's inflated prices.

To know when to backwash, watch your pressure gauge-- whrn it rises 8-10 psi, it's time to backwash. This will happen more frequently if you're vacuuming to filter. Keep in mind that you can get hoses that will attach to your waste line so you can redirect your waste water away from your neighbor's yard-- I have to do the same thing.

Janet

[hmoroz]

okay, I've never tested before, so here as far as I can tell are my results.
Chlorine- unreadable
pH over 8.5
and I did the other tests but I don't really know how to interpret them. The bromine did not register and the alkalinity test took 6 drops to change the color....
sorry, I know, not really helpful!

[aylad]

I'm guessing that you're using a 5- or 6-way drop kit from WalMart. If so, you're not going to have a bromine reading, since yours is a chlorine pool, so ignore that. When you ran the alk test, did 6 drops just barely change the color, or did you add the 7th drop to make sure that it wouldn't change further? When you say chlorine was unreadable, do you mean clear, or very dark yellow/orange/brown? Were you able to run a CYA test? If so, what did it give you?

In order to get the pool cleared up, you're going to have to be able to test your chlorine and understand what your levels are.

You might want to take a sample to the pool store and get them to test it for you, just to get a baseline on all the chemicals levels right now, and then maybe we can help you get the chlorine issue straightened out.

Janet

[Watermom]

While you are at the pool store, be aware that they are most likely going to try and sell you a bunch of stuff. RESIST! Post your numbers and let someone here help you.

[hmoroz]

I am using the kit that was here at the house already, it is probably a cheapie. There is 6 different types of drops to add. The chlorine level was so low that it did not change color really at all. The 6th drops on the alkalinity test was the drop that made it steady, the 5th drop needed a little extra help so I went with 6 drops. I'm not sure what the CYA test is. I did not see that one on the instructions. I did go purchase a whole lot of chlorine bleach and the 20 Mule team stuff and I'm awaiting further instructions!

[hmoroz]

tho pool store is really close to my house so I just ran over there really quick. Here are the readings:
TAC 0.0
FAC 0.0
pH 8.0
TA 110
Calcium Hardness 200
CYA 40
TDS 1500

I'll be anxiously awaiting my next set of instructions! Thank you guys so much for your help. You are making this so much easier!

[Watermom]

Ok. With some numbers, we can help. (You should get a good test kit so you can do this yourself without having to rely on the pool store. Check the link in my signature for how to buy the Taylor K-2006 or 2006C from Amazon. Pool Forum also makes a little from the sale.)

With a CYA of 40, you need to shock your pool up to 15 and try and keep it there. I don't know the volume of your pool, so can't suggest an amount of bleach to add. (BTW - a CYA of 40 is a good level, so you don't want to use any stabilized forms of chlorine (trichlor or dichlor) which will make it go higher. I would also suggest not using cal-hypo as you don't need that reading to get any higher either. Stick with bleach for your source of chlorine.)

Your pH is a little high. You can use some muriatic acid to lower it. Start with about a cup poured slowly in front of a return jet. Do not spill or splash it and stay upwind of it and wear protective goggles and gloves. After letting it circulate awhile, retest pH and then redose until you get the pH between 7.2-7.8.

Repost with the volume so we can suggest proper dosage for bleach.

[hmoroz]

We are unsure about the volume for sure. We were provided no information about the pool what so ever when buying the house. I looked up online a way to round about estimate it. The pool is a very irregular shape but our best guess is about 20-25,000 gallons. Also, in regards to muratic acid, where might I be able to purchase that? A hardware store? And also, I bought the 20 Mle Steam stuff and the baking soda (powder? Arm & Hammer, is that the right stuff?), is that not needed at this time?
Thank you

[madwil]

also, pH of 8 is pretty high- you probably want to add acid to drop it to 7.2-7.4... the shock levels of chlorine will throw the pH test off, so you can't accurately tell what it is while shocking, but it probably isn't going down any so adjusting now would be good

MA can be found at Home Depot/Lowes... think HD is cheaper (2 gallons for $10?) haven't bought any this year yet...

[hmoroz]

okay, 2 new problems to report..... I added the muratic acid as suggested, then notice the return kines did not seem to be returning anyhting. I'm not sure if the filter is working correctly nymore. It was 2 days ago, now I'm not so sure. Those are my 2 problems, acid just sitting, and filter does not seem to be filtering. The clear bubble on the side, should that always be full of water when filtering properly? Also, does the pressure gauge go to 0 when filter is turned off?
Please help. I'm starting to hate this pool alredy and I don't want to resent it! ha ha ha

[Watermom]

What is the filter gauge reading? Have you backwashed any? Also, in a 20K pool, each quart of 6% bleach will add about 0.8ppm of chlorine to the pool. In a 25K pool, the same amount will add 0.6 ppm.

[hmoroz]

I did backwash, but it still does not seem to be moving any water. I'm so frustrated right now. I checked the basket on the pump, it did have stuff in it but I removed it and there was no change. I've been messing with this thing half of the day in the rain because I want to conquer it!

I'm thinking of possibly hiring someone to come over and show me how to work everything, but I'm not sure. Also my husband is thinking we should just drain the whole thing and start over, which is not going to help unless we can get the filter straightened out!

[PoolDoc]

If you've got a decent pool company around, hiring someone to show you would be a GREAT idea. It's really hard to 'get it' all at once, especially when you have a number of service issues to resolve. (It sounds like some many be minor, but confusing.)

Also, I wouldn't drain and refill till you've worked out your equipment issues -- it's better to experiment with your existing water, and then (if you drain) keep your new water pristine.

Ben

[hmoroz]

Woo Hoo! Okay, I decided to give the filter one more try before I stopped for the night, and I got it going correctly again! I then added my bleach, waiting to do the pH reading until the filter has time to push the muratic acid around!
I will report my readings either later tonight or tomorrow! You guys are awsome! Thanks for all the help.... I'm probably a little frustrating to deal with, but it is all new to me!

Does anyone hail from the Lodi/Stockton, CA area? I need to try and find a good pool service. The one I was thinking of using closed down and now I don't where to go! Thank you!