Question about pumps

[stepbill]

New member here. I currently have a hayward superpump with a 1 hp motor. The pool size is 18x36 with a 8 foot deep end. I would like to try and lower the electric bill and thought about replacing the pump with a tristar 3/4 hp pump. Would this help much with the savings? I plan to put a timer in but that will be another post. Thanks for the help!

[PoolDoc]

You'd probably benefit more -- and pay less -- by putting a 2-speed motor on your pump, like this one:
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-1289/A.-O.-Smith-2-dsh-Speed/Detail.bok

You'll need a DPDT (double pole - double throw) toggle switch, to switch between the speeds, unless you get the 3/4 HP motor. (SPDT for that one). But, with a 2 speed, you get ~1/2 the flow for ~1/6 the electricity. You can operate the pump on low 24/7 except when backwashing, vacuuming, or cleaning up. With a sand filter, you'll actually get BETTER water filtration on the low speed.

Be careful to not get tripped up by the "Full rate" / "Up rate" label game. 2-speed motors are listed by full rate HP, which means a 3/4 HP full rate = a 1 HP uprate. Most 1 speed pumps (like yours) are sold with uprate labels. The parts salesman should be able to get that straight for you. BTW, you can use a larger motor with a smaller diffuser / impeller, and the motor loading and amp draw will be set by the impeller diffuser load. So, a 1.5 HP motor with a 1 HP impeller / diffuser will draw 1HP, not 1.5 HP.

Bottom line: you can use a MOTOR that is oversize, but not undersize. Also, you can 'downrate' a pump by replacing the impeller / diffuser with the next step down, but you cannot 'uprate' the same way -- it would overload and burn up the motor.

Hope this is clear.

Ben

[CarlD]

The Superpump is I believe, full-rated, not uprated. Generally "Above Ground" pumps are uprated and "In Ground" pumps are full rated. Superpump is an "In Ground" pump.

I have the 2 speed version of your pump--it came with the speed selector switch right on it! I'm ball-parking that you have 17-18,000 gallons. I use it at low speed for everything but backwashing (I use a self-powered robotic for vacuuming). Low speed uses far less electricity and is far quieter.


I wonder if you can replace just the motor with a 1hp 2 speed, and keep the pump? Hayward doesn't actually make their own motors.....hmmmmmm. Al?

[mas985]

The Superpump is an uprated pump with a service factor 1.0. The Tristar comes in two version, up rated and full rated. The full rated 3/4 HP has a service factor of 1.85 and the up rated version has a service factor of 1.25. BOTH versions of the Tristar are larger than the 1 HP Superpump so will move more water but also cost more to run. The full rated version of the Tristar is larger than the up rated version and will use the most energy as it is the largest of three pumps. The Superpump is actually a very efficient pump not because it was designed that way but simply because the total HP ( Label HP * Service Factor) is so small. In fact it is one of the smallest IG pumps on the market today.

Also, if your wet end is in good condition, you could just replace the motor with a two speed as the Superpump comes in two speed version.

[stepbill]

I decided to go with the Hayward super pump 2 speed but was unsure of what size to get. Should I get the 1hp or the 1 1/2hp? I currently have a 1hp single speed. Thanks again for your help.

[PoolDoc]

OK.

Regarding increasing pump size, you need to know that OVERsizing a pump generally causes more problems than UNDERsizing a pump. Oversized pumps push dirt through sand filters, blow out DE filter grids, and collapse cartridge pleats. They generally do NOT increase circulation much -- which is sort of 'set in concrete' by your existing piping -- but they DO increase electrical costs. There are many, many more pools out there that need a SMALLER pump, then need a LARGER one. Please read this PoolSolutions page:
the-bigger-pool-pump-scam.html (http://www.poolsolutions.com/tips/the-bigger-pool-pump-scam.html)

Do you want to replace just the motor, or the entire pump?

If the pump body, impeller, & diffuser are in good shape, you can replace ONLY the motor (plus seal and gaskets) using the link from my earlier post. You can replace a 1HP *UP rate* with a 3/4 or 1 HP *FULL rate*, so long as you keep the existing impeller and diffuser. Your existing wiring may determine your choice: the 3/4 HP full rate is a 120V motor; the 1 HP is a 240V motor.

ALSO: you will have to install a SPDT toggle switch with the 120V motor or a DPDT switch with the 1HP. The problem here is finding an electrician who knows how. Electricians don't even call these switches by their correct names (I just found this out). Instead, they call an SPDT a "3-way" switch and an DPDT a "4-way" switch, naming them for a common usage in household lighting control. Here are example switches
3 way - SPDT (http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/prod/cooper-switches/3033b_w009889.php)
4 way - DPDT (http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/prod/cooper-switches/3034w_w009890.php)

Note that the above switches are power rated, unlike 15A "standard" grade household toggle switches which you do NOT want to use, unless you like replacing switches.

Let me clear something up for everybody reading this: as a general rule, once your piping and equipment is installed, you can NOT increase water flow, filtration, and circulation effectively by increasing pump size. A big pump with small pipes just wastes electricity. A small pump -- properly selected -- with big pipes can increase flow.

Ben

[stepbill]

I am going to replace everything, get a new body, impeller, diffuser and motor. The piping is 2 1/2" both intake and out. So if I understand, go with the 2 speed 1hp which will replace a 1hp single speed motor and running it on low will be fine? Thanks again, this forum is great!

[mas985]

I would go with the 1 HP 2 speed SP2607X102S. If the old 1 HP was good enough, then this one should be as well.

[CarlD]

Yeah, the 1 hp should be more than good enough. I've got that one for 9 years now.

[PoolDoc]

"The piping is 2 1/2" both intake and out."

I assume, OD (outside diameter), which would mean that it's nominally 2" PVC. That's a good size, but the nomenclature will be important when you go to get all the bits and pieces.

If you REALLY mean 2.5" pipe . . . you are into some really oddball stuff, and should make sure of your replacement fittings BEFORE you cut anything loose.

Ben