Buying a house with a pool--need advice

[jmac31]

Hello everyone. Glad I was able to find these forums.

My wife and I are buying a home, closing on it May 6th. The house has an in-ground pool. The pool is in pretty bad shape, the water is completely brown/black. My wife would like to drain the pool and refill it, but I have been reading on the internet not to do that.

The pool is only about half full or a little more than that, tons of leaves and limbs in it, which would need cleaned out of course. It is a vinyl lined pool. About 18x36 with a diving board and slide.

I guess my question is, what should I do? I'm not sure where to start. Any advice would be much appreciated. I don't have a whole lot of information right now, due to not actually owning the house yet, but I will be coming back here frequently I am sure once we get the house.

Thank you.

[Watermom]

Scoop out as much debris as you can. Then go ahead and fill the pool so you can start the pump and filter. Then, it is time to start hammering it with bleach. What volume is the pool? What type of filter? I'd also suggest going ahead and ordering a good test kit. There is a link in my signature line where you can get the Taylor K-2006 from Amazon which earns the Pool Forum a little money to boot. If you go ahead and order the kit, maybe it will be delivered by the time you close on the house. Take some pictures of the pool before you do anything. You'll be amazed after it is cleaned up that it could ever look so bad! Welcome to the Pool Forum!

[jmac31]

Hey thanks for the reply. Yeah I was unsure of whether or not to fill the pool first. You mentioned bleach, bleach won't harm the vinyl liner will it? I am not entirely sure of the size of the pool, using Google earth I was able to get a rough estimate of the size with the ruler tool. It seems to be 12' X 36'. I was told the depth is 10' and 3', this could be incorrect. I unfortunately can't pop over and measure anything. By my calculations that makes the volume about 25000 gallons, I would say that is the most it could be. Thanks for the tip on the test kit, I will probably be jumping over there and purchasing one. I can't however see your signature, just did a search for it.

Thanks again.

[jmac31]

Dang forgot to mention that I'm pretty sure it is a sand filter, model and what not I am not sure of.

[Watermom]

The link for ordering the kits is:
http://poolsolutions.com/testkit-order-links.html

Regarding bleach ---- you need to do some reading! Bleach is what many of us use for our source of chlorine, me included. Household bleach is typically 6% sodium hypochlorite. Pool store liquid chlorine is the same thing just at a higher concentration (10 or 12%) and often at a much higher price! If 10 or 12% sodium hypochlorite isn't gonna harm your liner, then 6% certainly won't!

Do some reading on our sister site http://www.poolsolutions.com and also read through lots of posts here on the forum. As the time gets closer and you have had time to do some reading, come back here and ask questions. We'll be glad to help!

EDIT: I don't understand why you can't see my signature at the bottom of all my posts. At the bottom underneath where it says Watermom, you should see 6 blue hotlinks to various pages on Pool Solutions. I just logged out and signed in as a restricted user and I can see them. Then, I signed out again and just lurked without signing in at all, and I could still see them. Are you sure you can't?

[jmac31]

Thanks for the link. Yeah I did some reading right after I posted that, and realized that they are the same ingredients. Thanks for the link to the site, I'll check it out. I can't see your signature still, also it says I am a trial user, not restricted, if that makes a difference. I can't see any of the other forum categories either.

My biggest thing was just not knowing where to start, but I'll get the pool cleaned out then fill it.

Thanks again.

[Poconos]

You don't say what part of the country you're located in. If you need to be concerned about freezing then there are other things to look for. If the plumbing and equipment wasn't drained and winterized properly there could be hidden damage that will show when you fill and fire up the equipment. Cracked pipes and other things. You may want to consider hiring a pro to check the basics. You can give the equipment a good visual once you have full access to the house and damage should be visible. Underground pipes are another story and the only real way to check is to pressure test them with compressed air. You plug one end and connect a pressure test thing and pump up the pressure and see if it holds. Not too hard to do if you're handy and have the time to spend. With a new house I suspect time will be scarce.
Also, congrats on the purchase and hope you enjoy. We'll be here to help along the way.
Al

[jmac31]

Thanks for the reply and warm welcome. Yeah the house has already been taking up a lot of time and we don't even own it yet! We are excited though.

I hadn't thought about the pipes freezing, we live in Wichita, KS. It gets very cold and very hot here. The house went on the market in October, the cover was not put on so I doubt any winterizing was done. Like you said though, I will probably just have to wait until I fill the pool and get the equipment running. I have been debating on having a professional come out and take a look, just don't want to spend the money =).

P.S. I had signatures disabled in my profile, thats why I wasn't seeing them.

[Watermom]

The missing signature mystery is solved. Good!

Al, good call on checking pipes for freeze damage. I don't live someplace that gets super cold too often and I also don't have an inground, so that is not something I have to be concerned about. Al (Poconos), on the other hand, lives where the polar bears play and gets thick blocks of ice on his pool that last from October until probably April. Sometimes he even goes ice fishing in his pool!;)

[CarlD]

Where to start?
Well, I'd start with the pipe-check. If the underground pipes are leaking you should fix them first, because nothing else is reasonably possible until then.
Then comes the condition of the liner. If it's intact and not leaking you are in good shape. If it's torn you'll probably need it replaced, so do that before adding water.
After that comes the filter and pump: Are they OK and running and ready for the season.
When you are good to go on these three, then you can start the process of cleaning the pool.

You'll need enough water to run the pump--over all the returns and drains, including the skimmer.
You'll need to scoop out debris as much as possible. Use a pool tool called a "leaf rake" that's like a cross between a squeegee and a butterfly net.
And start that filter going.

You'll need to test the water to get a baseline. The best investment you'll make (besides your time on PoolForum) will be in a FAS-DPD test kit. You can get a Taylor K2006 (not the 2005) or the Leslie FAS-DPD Chlorine Service Test Kit. Ther'es a way to get the Taylor kit from Amazon(?) that gives a commission to the owner of this site (Not me, Watermom, Poconos, or aylad). For $60 or $70 bucks it will save you thousands over the years, plus innumerable headaches.

And you're gonna need a LOT of bleach, or Liquid Chlorine (same stuff as bleach only more concentrated).

That's enough for now.

[Poconos]

Bah...I tried to upload a pic of the leak test jig I built but struck out. Basically it's a short length of 1.5" PVC pipe, capped at one end, a hole drilled in the side and a pressure gauge threaded in, another hole drilled and a tubeless tire stem inserted from the inside. I use a section of auto radiator hose of the correct diameter, with hose clamps, to connect it to an access point in the plumbing. Depending on your plumbing the jig can be connected any way that works. Plug the returns by removing the eyeballs and replacing with a plug, may be a 1.5" male PVC cap or whatever fits. Hook an air compressor, or a tire pump, to the jig and pump it up to about 10 psi. That's about all you need. Do the same with the skimmer line. Usually this should be done with dry lines but with water in them you may not find a small leak. If a big break or crack then you'll find out quick, even if the pipes have water in them. For mounting the pressure gauge, you can drill a hole slightly smaller than the gauge threads and use the gauge itself as a tap to cut threads. Then smear silicone seal on the inside around he gauge threads to make a better seal. PVC is easy to work with and very versatile, cheap, and sometimes fun.
Al

[jmac31]

Hey thanks for the tutorial on making that. Once we get in to the house I'll probably be asking you questions about it and whether I am making it correctly or not =). One note, the returns are plugged, you think that means it was winterized? About the liner, what is the best way to check for a tear in it? I am not getting into this pool in it's current condition =).

Thanks everyone.

[Poconos]

The fact the returns are plugged is a GOOD sign. Can also look if the pump has the drain plug pulled or is dry, and same with the filter. As for the liner, finding small tears can be a PITA. Best way is to fill it and see if the level drops. At its present level you can try and give a good visual around the waterline because if it was leaking the leak would stop at the present level. Stairs are a pretty common place for leaks at the pinch strips or whatever they're called.
On the leak test jig, if I don't get the pic thing solved I can always email stuff to you when the time comes.
Al

[jmac31]

So we closed on the house Friday and painted the inside over the weekend. I am now starting on the pool! Started cleaning it tonight, but ran into a snag. I was taking the leaves and twigs out with the leaf rake and noticed that the water was not draining from the rake and making it extremely heavy. I then noticed the problem, we have a cottonwood tree in the back yard which has deposited a ton of cotton on the bottom of the pool. About an hour or so into my cleaning my pole bent and snapped. Anyone have any suggestions for this? Can I get a stronger pole? Do I have to just watch how much I am picking up?

Also, on a separate note, I started looking at my pipes, filter, and pump. I noticed that one of the pipes was cut through, this one goes under the concrete. I am assuming it goes to the skimmer or the drain. I will upload some pictures tomorrow and see if you guys can help me figure out what all these pipes are for and what I am missing.

Thanks for all the help.

[pigbat]

Some pools in this region have a dedicated cleaner line that was never hooked up and may be cut at the pump end. You should have a line coming back to your pump from the main drain and 1 from each skimmer. If it's the extra one that's cut, it could be the dedicated cleaner line. Pics would be very helpful.

[jmac31]

Hey guys. I think I am almost finished cleaning the leaves, twigs, and cotton out of the pool. Should I fill it after I am done with that or scrub the sides first? Also I have attached some pictures of the pipes and a picture of the pool so you can see how nasty it is :). The red arrows point to the pipe that has been cut. If you could let me know what all the pipes are that would be awesome.

Thanks again.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/anosen/Pool_Before.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/anosen/Pipes_3.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/anosen/Pipes_2.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/anosen/Pipes_1.jpg

[jmac31]

Anyone make heads or tails of these pipes? I'm assuming the one that is cut is not an extra and that it will need replaced.

[Poconos]

Yuck !! Hope you don't find a corpse in the bottom of that mess.
I'm not sure of the plumbing but I'm guessing the cut pipes may have been for the heater which seems to have its ports capped and disconnected? Also, I'm wondering if there is another pump somewhere. I don't understand the skinny pipes in and out of the pump transitioning to what looks like 1.5" pipe. Almost like the pump shown was some kind of very low flow circulation pump and not the main pump.
Anyone with more ideas?
Al

[jmac31]

Yeah it is really nasty, tons and tons of algae. Thinking it might be worth the hassle to drain it at this point. I got to looking at the pipes and there should be another pump is what I am thinking as well. It is a foreclosure and they took all of the appliances so I am assuming they took the pump too if it was worth some money. If anyone else can help me with this mess it would be greatly appreciated.

[CarlD]

draining it at this point could be a mistake. If the ground around is very wet, you could float the pool out of the ground like a boat, doing thousands more damage to the structure.
IF there's no ground water or you must make repairs down there then you'll have to drain it, but you'll need something get rid of ground water, and that's more specialized than I am.

I think Al is right--the pipes to the pump look too thin, like maybe it's an automatic cleaner pump or a spa pump? I don't see an in-pump skimmer basket, which filter pumps always have, in my limited experience. Is that a pool heater or just the AC for the house?

I'm thinking the best course is to identify where the pipes go (Drains and skimmers, backwash drain, returns), get a new filter pump sized to your sand filter, and re-plumb it to suit. It's all PVC, so it's pretty easy to work, but only if you know what to plumb.

The skimmers and drains go to the pump, near its skimmer basket. It pumps water to the multivalve which can route it to filter and to the returns, backwards to backwash (and to the backwash drain), or directly to the pool, bypassing the filter.

Carl

[jmac31]

So the pool is coming along. Got a new pump and re-plumbed everything. Put some chlorine in it and it is no longer brown, just a milky green now. I have been running the pump quite often, I was just wondering how often I should run the pump. Getting it cleaned up, I am guessing, I should run it more than when it is sparking clear. My question is, how often or how long should I run it once it is up and running? I have heard 12 hours and 8 hours from people I have talked to.

On another note, the pool is still quite dirty. I have been trying to clean out the leaves and whatever else is on the bottom, but it is hard without being able to see it. If I keep shocking and running the filter will it eventually clear up?

P.S. Yeah that is a heater there. I am doing away with it though.

Thanks!

[CarlD]

OK, when cleaning a pool of algae, you need to run the pump 24/7, and be dosing it with chlorine pretty much constantly. In practical terms this means 3x/day or minimum 2x. You have to vacuum to get the junk out, and back wash a lot, too.

Once it's clean and the chemicals are all nicely balanced, you need to "turn over" your water at least once per day. How long that takes depends on the gallons per minute your pump and filter run at, and how many gallons you have. For example, say you have 10,000 gallons and your pump and filter run at 25gpm: You need to run the filter for at least 7 hours to filter all the water once. I just made up these numbers.

You should also get a leaf rake. This is a gadget that looks like someone welded a squeegee to a butterfly net and goes on a standard skimmer pole. You need to drag this across the bottom, even if you can't see it, and get those leaves out of there! They are decaying and using up your chlorine.

Carl

[jmac31]

We have been running the filter for probably 14 hours a day. The problem I am having is that my impeller keeps getting clogged. I have cleaned it out 4 times today and it just keeps getting clogged. Any ideas on how to keep it from being clogged. Here is a link to the pump I have http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-Challenger-Ground-Pool-Pump/dp/B002ZJ3NC6.

I have been using the leaf rake. It just seems to be never ending. I raked stuff out for about 6 hours today. Minus the time I spent cleaning that stupid impeller. Regarding the GPM of my pump and filter. My filter is Sta-Rite HRPB24, it says 20gpm and I am not sure what my pump puts out.

I have some chlorine granules. How much of that should I be putting in during the day? I've been putting in about 5 scoops, I think it is 1 cup per scoop, every day. Think I need more than that?

Jesse

[aylad]

You need to put in enough to get your chlorine up to 12-15 ppm and keep it there, at least until the pool clears and you add stabilizer.

Janet