Guess my filter... please.

[RbBrdMan]

Hello Everyone,

I am a new pool owner. I purchased a home in February that has a big in-ground pool (48x18). Since I am new to the world of pools I am having a difficult time identifying the type of filter that I currently own. There seems to be no information in regards to type or model number on the filter itself. Only a warning label advising me not to electrocute myself.

If possible I would like to be able to post a picture that I took of the pump and filtration setup, however, I'm having a difficult time figuring out how to do so. Let me know if this picture is visible. I'll post IMG tag and a direct link.

Thanks for any assistance.

http://i.imgur.com/2qHWB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2qHWB.jpg

[PoolDoc]

From right to left, you've got a Hayward Super pump, a Hayward cartridge filter, probably in this series:
http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/_10201_10551_13505_-1_17502_15516_I.htm
and a Hayward inline feeder (which needs to be removed -- it restricts the flow tremendously!)

It appears your equipment has been winterized, and is not ready for use -- parts are missing.

Ben

[RbBrdMan]

From right to left the pump says "Emerson 1081 Pool Motor" , Filter in question, chlorinator automatic.

On Thursday April 21st. I went to "Pool School" it was a seminar put on by Watson's a local pool company. Less information and more sales oriented. I did speak with a few people there an showed them the same filter. All of them said it looked to be a Heyward DE filter.

This is the closest image I could find.
http://apluspoolparts.com/userfiles/image/hayward_pro_grid_de_filter.jpg

Would it be advisable to take it apart and post some pictures on this thread for a better view?

Also the equipment has been winterized. There are a good number of parts, plugs, and a valve in the shed. This is quite a daunting task I do admit.

[PoolDoc]

Could be a DE -- the imagery on Haywardnet was sparse. I've always avoided Hayward's filters, so my experience is limited. But, Sta-Rite has a single shell (System3) they use for DE, sand & cartridge. Hayward may be copying them.

The "Emerson 1081" is just the motor info, not the pump. The pump is a Hayward Super (not Super II) -- those I know. Likewise, the "automatic feeder) is just Hayward's standard feeder with the tiny orifice that ALL the pool water has to get through. Also, has an adjustment valve that rarely works -- your choice, but you'd be best served by getting rid of it. If you want a tablet chlorinator get a Rainboy 320 (Pentair product, now).

Posting pictures for the parts will get you lots of posts, but it won't get you ready to re-assemble the stuff. Hire it done; find out when they're coming; watch and make notes . . . and then DIY *next* year.

Ben

[RbBrdMan]

Thanks for the advice. I would love to get someone out to open the pool for me this year. Any estimates on how much that could cost.

I've already been 'pool-stored' into purchasing about 300 dollars worth of chemicals. I'm not entirely sure if I need all of them. Just a green horn and do not know any better.

Here is the stuff I bought:
25 LBS Bag of DE x2
Pool Perfect Phos Free 3L - x2
Spring/Fall Phos Free - x2
Pool First Aid - x1
Blast box of 8 1LBS packets x 3
Digitial Test strip reader
2 cases liquid pool shock.

Given I have these chemicals would that change the estimate of having someone come out and do this for me?

[waste]

Welcome to the Forum!

That's a Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter (looks like a 4800, which would mean it takes 6 lbs of DE when fully clean and only 5 when you use the backwash function) (as you are new to using a DE filter, you might want to take the time to read the first stickie in the Pool Equipment & Operations section here (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?9189-cleaning-a-DE-filter)


It would probably be worth a couple hundred dollars to have someone come out and open your pool and go over how to run the pool with you. I'd advise scheduling it so that you will be there and can see what they do and ask any questions you have.

This is not to say that we can't talk you through it but I feel that if you see what they do and ask your questions while they are there, you'll get a better understanding of what's going on and will be able to do it yourself in the coming years :cool:

Please feel free to ask of us any questions you have about your pool. (thank you ! for the pic, if you ever need to replace parts, I'll know the specific part # for you to replace :))

[RbBrdMan]

Hi Ted! Thanks for the great info. I am reading through your FAQ post now. It is very detailed. I appreciate the heads up about replacement parts also and will certainly keep you in mind.

You and Ben are right it would be the best idea to have someone out to open it for me, at least the first time. I'm sure I can learn enough to DIY next season. I'd much rather just do it myself this year. Maybe it is an ego thing.. LOL ..

Anyhow, I appreciate your identification of the filter. Do you happen to know if there is an online product manual somewhere for the filter I have. I suspect it is an older model. I have google'd it but can only find a parts diagram not an actual user manual.

Thanks,
RB

[PoolDoc]

Thanks Ted;

Gotta go by SCP and get a 2011 Hayward catalog. I thought I picked one up last year, but I haven't been able to find it.

Ben

[waste]

You're not very likely to find the manual for that filter (the Pro-Grids were replaced by Micro-Clear ~ 10 years ago) - the change also included the band, the band clamp and the air relief/ pressure gauge assembly (yours isn't installed in the pic you posted) - in short, finding parts for the filter will be difficult :( Here (http://www.troublefreepool.com/holy-o-ring-batman-hayward-de-filter-o-rings-t12835.html?hilit=Holy) is a thread I started on Hayward's stopping production of certain replacement parts for DE filters on TFP.


You and Ben are right it would be the best idea to have someone out to open it for me, at least the first time. I'm sure I can learn enough to DIY next season. I'd much rather just do it myself this year. Maybe it is an ego thing.. LOL ..

If you are heck bent and determined, you can open the pool yourself, and I'll help you, as best I can from afar, but I DO believe that watching and talking to whoever you hire to open the pool will better get us 'on the same page' :)

[RbBrdMan]

Well, I took apart the filter last night and this is what it looked like.
http://i.imgur.com/nNd7vl.jpg

I used the awesome post you linked me on how to clean it. Currently it is sitting in a solution of dishwashing fluid and water. I have some muriatic acid I can use next if need be.

Right now I have 2 questions.
1. Should I use some type of grease or lubricant on the O-Ring before I put the cap back on? I assume yes, so what kind?
2. What is the best method to get the cap back on? I read somewhere that if I let the filter fill up and then shut it off with the lid on then the laws of physics will do the work for me and pull the lid back on nice and snug. Is this advisable? Or is there a better method?

Again thanks for all the help so far. The cleaning guide you wrote was fantastic!

RB

[CarlD]

Yipes! Ted is the guy on DE.
I thought it wasn't a cartridge because you have a multi-valve on the side. They are not common on cartridges. Most of the junk (yes, it's junk) from the pool store shouldn't be used. If you can return it, do so. I'd keep the DE and the liquid pool shock, but ONLY if it's sodium hypochlorite. If it's "non-chlorine" get rid of it.

Phosphate remover is the latest junk chemistry the pool companies are pushing. If THAT is your problem you have far worse problems. I don't know anyone who has actually needed that stuff--PoolDoc MAY have, and Waste and Waterbear could as well...maybe.

Not sure what the "blast box" is but I'm guessing it's packets of Cal-hypo or Di-Chlor. If so, you can use those, too.

What is the horsepower on the pump? And how many gallons is the pool?

[waste]

That's quite an algae collection you had there :)

You want to rinse the o-ring and wipe down the sealing areas on the tank before lubing and reseating the o-ring. The lube should be either Teflon or silicon based (NEVER !!!! use petroleum based lubes on pool parts!!). When cleaning the o-ring or lubing it do not pull on it or stretch it! all you're looking to do is rub the lube on so that the ring doesn't dry rot and will allow the top to slide into place without pinching or tearing the ring.

Getting the clamp back on isn't overly difficult.

1) Lube the o-ring and seat it on the bottom part of the filter.

2) On the top there is a little tab, line that up with the slot on the bottom (where the multiport is) and lower the top onto the bottom as levelly as you can (it's not good to turn the top once it's touching the o-ring).

3) Your band has 2 spring loaded nut assemblies, you removed one nut, spring and the 2 washers to get the band off. Loosen the other nut ~ all the way and put the clamp back on (orient it so that you'll have easy access to both nuts). You should now be able to start the slevednut/ spring & washers assembly that you took off.

4) Tighten the nuts. Go back and forth between the 2 sides so that the 2 gaps in the band remain within ~ 1/8" of each other (we're trying to keep even pressure on the o-ring to insure a proper seal) Do this until the coils on both springs are touching then give each side ~ 1/2 turn further and you should be all set to go :cool:

It probably took me longer to type this than it will take you to lube the o-ring and get the filter back together :D

Keep us posted as to how you are coming along.

[TonyPH12345]

Eww. That's nasty. :)

1- Yes. Use any silicone based Pool / Spa lubricant. If the gasket is cracked or dry, just replace it (but lube even a new one.) Apply it by squirting a liberal amount (unshelled walnut or pecan sized glob) into your GLOVED HAND. Run the o-ring through the lube so that it is ENTIRELY coated. DO NOT get the stuff on your hands or clothing. While it won't cause any harm, it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to wash off. It is waterproof, after all. Don't even TRY to get your hand wet if you get it on there. Just wipe as much as you can off with a shop rag or paper towel.
2- When I reassemble mine, I use a healthy amount of lubricant on the o-ring and just use about 40 to 50 pounds of my body weight to seat the lid back down. You shouldn't rely on re-attaching the girdle band to bring them back together...

[waste]

Tony, welcome to the Forum!


You shouldn't rely on re-attaching the girdle band to bring them back together...

May I ask why?

[TonyPH12345]

In my experience, using the Girdle band alone doesn't ensure you have a proper seal. Putting the band around an OPEN case and tightening it could potentially put uneven pressures on the flanges, and might even warp the band. You may even find it very difficult to re-mate the band's nuts & bolts if the filter top isn't fully seated. It's just my opinion, but the girdle band "Holds" it together, it doesn't PUT it together. Others' opinions may differ!

Just incidentally, here's my steps for a DE filter cleanout.

-Backwash per normal.
-Shut off the power at the breaker or master cutoff.
-Open the vent valve at the top of the case (your pictures don't show one? Where is your air purge vent?)
-Remove the girdle.
-Remove the lid. Keep in mind that the filter is still FULL of water. You're going to get somewhat wet. You want the weight of that water holding the filter in place. If you can manage to drain the filter BELOW the girdle, that's fine, but I've never managed to get it just right... ;) Stand back, it'll be messy and smelly.
-Remove the bung at the bottom of the case slowly and set it aside.
-Use a permanent Sharpy marker to mark on the PVC standpipe how far down the filter assembly mating point is installed over the pipe.
-Lift the WHOLE Grid Assembly out as a unit, sliding it off the standpipe, being careful not to torque it or twist it because the manifold on top can crack. You might enlist help from someone as it can be heavy (30 or 40 pounds?)
-Remove the wingnut from the top of the manifold and put the washer and wingnut in a safe place. They're easy to lose in the grass. If you lose one, buy a replacement stainless steel one at Lowe's or Home Depot, not a pool supply unless you have to. Home depot is about 10% of the cost of Leslie's... The guy at our neighborhood Leslie's even told me the exact size and to go across the street to Lowe's. :)
- Turn the assembly upside down and remove the threaded rod and set it aside.
- Take the baseplate off and set it aside.
- Remove each grid by lifting it STRAIGHT OUT of the manifold.
- Clean each grid with a garden hose power sprayer.
- Inspect each grid carefully for tears or holes. Replace any that are brittle fabric or have tears. Even a tear 1/4" long can cause DE to enter your pool and reduce filter efficiency. I usually wind up replacing one or two every year.
- Clean out the standpipe fitting on the manifold making sure to get out all the old grease and dirt so as to not allow grit to erode the o-ring gasket on the standpipe.
- Reassemble in the reverse order, again doing it upside down. Take note of the indicator on the manifold that indicates where the "SMALL" grid should go. You'll note that one of the grids is smaller than the others. It's smaller to make room for the standpipe.
- Put the baseplate back on, and CAREFULLY reinstall the threaded rod from the bottom to and through the manifold.
- Turn it back over and reinstall the washer and wingnut just barely finger tight.
- Remove and clean the standpipe o-ring. Re-lubricate. Don't be too miserly on the lubricant. Replace the o-ring if needed.
- Reinstall the assembly onto the standpipe, observing the depth you marked earlier.
- Remove the rubber o-ring from the filter case. Clean it with paper towels to remove any grime, old grease, and grit. Do the same on the case flanges.
- Re-grease it as described above.
- Set the filter top back onto the o-ring, and using downward pressure, re-seat the lid.
- Replace the girdle band and tighten until the spring coils touch each other, then about 1/4 to 1/2 turn more.
- Remove the valve stem from the vent valve. Clean and regrease the o-rings.
- Check the bung o-ring and re-grease it. Clean the bung and bung hole (yes, I know...). Replace the bung and tighten.
- Turn power back on, then turn pump on until a steady stream of water is emitted from the valve opening.
- Turn the pump off and re-install the valve stem, but do not fully close.
- Turn the pump back on, and wait until all air is purged from the filter case.
- Close the valve.
- Recharge with the filter with the correct amount of new DE.

Voila! I've done this about 20 times on my filter (once or twice a year) The first time took several hours. Now I have it down to less than an hour, with the longest time being the inspection of the grids.

[RbBrdMan]

Wow, great information all around. I'm so glad I found this forum. I had a ton of stuff to do after work yesterday and it is supposed to rain very heavy here in Ohio today.

I likely will not be able to put the filter back together until Thursday. I'm worried about the O ring, I've been informed that Hayward quit making replacement O Rings, so this one will have to work I suppose until I'm ready to buy a new filter. I have 2 replacement grids in the shed, (previous home owner left them), coincidentally two of the grids have rips in them so I will be replacing those 2 grids with the new ones I have.

Now that I found this forum next year I won't be spending 400+ dollars on chemicals. Unfortunately I can't take these chemicals back because they were part of a blowout sale from attending a seminar. Ah well live and learn.

Again thanks for the help and I will keep you all posted on my progress. :)

(BTW when do I get to just post, without needing moderator approval?)

[waste]

Rb, I'm not sure of the mechanics of being able to post, unmoderated but, Ben (Pooldoc) just got hit by a tornado - so it might take longer than usual.

Take a look at the other link I gave (Holy O-ring, Batman) for possible ways to replace your o-ring, should you need to.

Tony, THANK YOU for explaining what you said and the detailed description of the process! :cool: