chlorine questions

[str8deal]

We just recently purchased a home in southwest arizona with a 18,000gal inground plaster pool with a self-cleaning system and fun bubble. The filter and cleaning system runs nightly from 9pm to 4am. The water is crystal clear. The only thing we have done to the pool is put tablets in the floating dispenser (maybe 12 total=3 a month). Since swim time is here we swept down the sides, cleaned out the baskets and backwashed the system. We decided to take a water sample to the nearby pool store for testing. Here are the results:
FAC:8
TAC:8
CYA:170
TA:170
pH: 8
TDS:2400
The pool store said we had to drain our pool to solve the CYA problem. Not likely now since the temperature here in Arizona is now above 80 and on the rise. I came home and removed the tablet dispenser from the pool because he said that the tablets only add to the CYA. I put 2 cups of muriatic acid in the pool last night when the pump came on and plan to put another 2 cups in tonight and more tomorrow night until pH level goes down.
I guess my question is: did I do the right things? If I don't use the tablets, what should I use, when and how much? Will the CYA number be okay if I maintain a chlorine level around 8? Will I eventually have to do some draining to lower that number and if so, can it now wait till the winter months?
Thanks so much for any help!
Deb

[Watermom]

Hi Deb and welcome to the forum! *If* your pool store got your CYA reading right, then yes, the only way to lower it is to do a partial drain. Or, you can maintain higher than normal cl readings if you don't want to drain any water. Take a look at the article and chart at the following link for more info.

http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html

If I were you, I would get a good test kit and test your water yourself before deciding to believe in the numbers you got from the pool store. We recommend the Taylor K2006. If you order it from the following link, the Pool Forum makes a little money in the process.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006

Also, not only is your pH too high, but your alk as well. You can read about lowering it in the the following thread.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=191

Hope this info helps. Repost if you have further questions. And, by the way, thank you for becoming a subcriber and helping to support our forum!

[str8deal]

thanks for the reply, I am working on the pH and alk levels with muriatic acid. it has come down some already, putting in another cup or two this evening and will check it in the morning. I will definitely be getting a testing kit, mostly because the test kit I have now doesn't go over 3 on the chlorine and doesn't test the cya.
My next question would be then is to the chlorine. If I stop using the stablizer tablets so that my cya doesn't keep rising much more than what it is, what should I be using (ex. bleach), how much and how often? Or should I just leave it alone and continue using the tablets. I only have 1 in the floater at a time. I don't want the cya to rise more than what it is.

[CarlD]

Yes, use bleach. If your CYA level is correctly measured you must not use either "stabilized Tabs" (Tri-chlor) or "Di-chlor" powder. Bleach or Liquid Chlorine is your best bet.
If you Calcium Hardness or Total Hardness level is low (Below 200 - 300) you can also use Cal-Hypo powder, sometimes sold as packets of "Shock".
But do not use Tri-Chlor or Di-Chlor as they will make your CYA levels worse--anything over 100ppm means a different tactic for maintaining a clean pool. (or you drain off half your water and refill).
But bleach or LC is best.

Now: How much to use? There's two parts to this question:
1) How much chlorine will a gallon of bleach/LC add to my pool?
2) How much chlorine do I need?

1) There are two ways to figure the level of chlorine added.
You can either find, download and use the "Bleach Calculator", which works very well, but someone else will have to give you the link. or..
You can use the Rule of Thumb (which is based on the same formula). I like the Rule of Thumb because I can approximate easily how much in my head.
It goes like this:
One gallon of regular bleach (5.25%) will add exactly 5.25ppm of free chlorine to 10,000 gallons of water.
One gallon of 6% will add 6ppm to the same 10,000 gallons, and so on (12.5% LC will add 12.5ppm)
But if you have a 20,000 gallons, it will only add half that much--so 5.25% will only add 2.625ppm, so you need TWO gallons to get the same effect.

You simply adjust that way.

Now with 18,000 gallons it seems tough, but it's not. You can approximate. You can either figure your pool at 17,500 gallons which 1 3/4 times our 10,000 model, or go all the way and round up to 20,000 gallons. Since you have a plaster pool there's no danger of damaging the pool if your chlorine levels are a bit higher than the Rule says. I have a 19,000 vinyl and I just use 20,000 with no problem.

So...to raise your free chlorine by 6ppm, figure 2 gallons of Ultra-Bleach (6% concentration).

2) How much do you need?

With a CYA of 170, the recommended level for Free Chlorine is between 8 and 15ppm (I'd stay to the higher side of that, but you are just at the low end of the target) and if you have algae you shock the pool by raising it to 25ppm. Since you have a Free Chlorine level of 8, you'd need to raise it by 17ppm. Since every gallon of 6% ultra adds 3ppm, you need 5 or 6 gallons. Since you REALLY have 18,000 gallons, the 5 gallons should be enough to reach 25ppm.

If your pool is clear at 8ppm, I'd still raise it to, say 11 by adding a gallon of 6%

While none of this is exact, it's actually good enough to clear your pool and keep it clear. I rarely sit down and work the formula, because I worked it out for the 10,000 gallons and can adjust as needed.
If you want to get crazy there are ways to measure exactly the strength of the bleach or LC (I get the LC from a place that nominally sells it as 12.5% but when I test it I get 14% so I need a little less).

I hope this helps.

Carl

[str8deal]

wow! at first reading I thought this is too confusing, but after reading it again, it isn't really. I found a link to a bleach calculator that I could download and I also found a link to a pool calculator for everything. I am going to go with your advise, but I am only going to go to around 11 because the water is really clear right now. I am heading out to buy a new test kit that will give me readings for a higher chlorine level than the one I have now. It only goes up to 3.
I really appreciate the help. Researching on the internet can be overwhelming with the information that is out there. This is our first major pool since moving to Arizona, it is a bit different than the pool we had back east. We are finding that a lot of things are done differently here because of the heat.

[aylad]

If you're still looking for a good test kit, here's the one that we recommend to most people..http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IXIIG?tag=poolbooks&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B0002IXIIG&adid=1SCXQHYCT8KTDC1KDTYD&

And if you buy it from this link, Poolforum actually gets a donation from the sale.

Janet

[str8deal]

Well, it's been over a month since I started this post and after following Carl's advice I had the chlorine and ph levels looking really good. In fact, my husband was amazed at what a better job the cleaning system was doing as we always had one spot in the pool where dirt had a tendency to accumulate. We thought it was the head but once the pool numbers were adjusted it cleared up. PROBLEM: we had some pretty heavy winds for about a week and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it or not, but since then I can't get the numbers back. The chlorine level keeps reading under 3 (we had it up around 11-15 because of our high cya number) no matter how much bleach I put in and the ph level is staying just above 8 even though I keep putting acid in. Would a shock treatment help and if so what should I use? Or should I just put 4-5 gallons of bleach in? Please help, I am becoming frustrated.

[Watermom]

How much bleach are you adding at a time? Is your pH still at 170? Have you added anything else other than bleach and acid. You don't need a special product called shock treatment. Bleach is all you need.