Help

[connier13]

We bought a house with a 30,000 gallon gunite pool that is black onyx. Across the winter we turned pump off and now have a solid green yucky pool. Should we start now or wait closer to spring to clean and where do we start?? Our filter is a Hayward carthridge system and I am only familair with sand filters.

[aylad]

Hello, and welcome to the forum from a fellow Louisianian!!

To clean your pool is easy--to decide when you want to do so is really up to you. The cleanup process will involve using plain, unscented bleach to get the pool up to its shock level (which will be determined by your CYA level, if you still have any) and then continuing to add the bleach to keep the pool at shock level until the green clears up. This is done while brushing the pool daily, and while keeping the pump running 24/7 and cleaning your cartridge as your pressure increases. Keep a good eye on the filter pressure, though--in a really algae filled pool it can tend to build up quickly, especially at first. Once the green is cleared up, then it's easy to get the rest of your chems balanced.

Has the pool been drained for the winter? If not, are you running the pump during this next couple of days until this cold snap is over? Burst pipes are a real worry for right now, with sustained temps below 30 for the week. So--if you're going to run the pump anyway to keep the pipes from freezing, you might want to go ahead and shock it/clean it up now. IF not, then you can just wait until the weather starts to warm up again--if it's green and yucky now, then it won't be any worse if you wait another month or two.

Let us know what you decide to do, and we'll be glad to help you take it from there!! What size pool (in gallons) do you have, and what is your CYA level?
Janet

BTW, I'm going to delete the duplicate post that is attached to the "green disgusting pool" sticky. If you'll make any new posts on this topic as a reply to this one, it will be much easier to keep all of your pertinent info together. :)

[connier13]

Thanks so much for your help. We almost drained the pool, but stopped as it is gunite and as you know, we are swamp filled down here. Just my luck, it would have popped out of the ground before I got it refilled. We started running the pump when the temps started dropping and it is still running. Last year, it seemed like I was having to add more chemicals to the pool just to keep the ph and chlorine numbers right. I pulled a few pool sample numbers the other day and saw they never ran the CYA. As soon as we decide to start, I will let you know and also send some pictures.

[Watermom]

Just want to add my welcome as well! Glad to have you. Lots of people here who can help you get your pool cleaned up and after that, help you manage your pool with little time, effort and money! Hope you enjoy the forum.

[connier13]

Our weather is finally getting nice and we are ready to begin the Swamp Cleanup!! My readings are:

Chlorine 0.2
PH 8.2
Acid Demand-2 gallons of Muratic Acid
Alkalinity 170 ppm

[Watermom]

Is there a lot of debris in the pool that can be scooped out? If so, get a net and get as much out as you can. You'll want to take your chlorine up to shock level and try and hold it there as consistently as you can. Do you know your cya reading? For now until we know your cya reading, I'm going to recommend that you raise your chlorine level up to 15ppm. In a 30K gallon pool, each gallon (4 quarts) of 6% bleach will raise your cl reading by 2ppm. Test at least three times per day and each time, add enough bleach to get back up to 15ppm. Also run your pump 24/7. You'll also want to work to get your pH down. Add doses of muriatic acid until you get your pH down to around 7.2. Each 24 oz. dose will drop your pH by about 0.2. Don't try and do it in one big dose. Be careful with the acid. It is nasty stuff. Don't get it on you and be down wind of the fumes.

If you don't have a good test kit, you'll want to get one. The one we recommend is the Taylor K-2006. If you buy it from Amazon through the following link, the Pool Forum makes a little money in the process. http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006

Keep us posted how things are going.

[connier13]

There is no debris, just a lot of algae. I took pictures yesterday and will try to figure out how to load one today. We are getting bleach and acid today. The filter is a Hayward 4500C cathridge filter. We also have skimmer filter baskets. I also ordered the Taylor kit though the link you provided. I will get CYA today as well!!

[Watermom]

Don't add any cya yet. We need you to get a reading before adding any. Also, even if your cya is low, we won't want you to add it yet. After the algae is cleaned up is the time to do that. You're probably going to clean those filters frequently while you are cleaning this mess up. Also, run your pump 24/7 while you are fighting the algae. The more consistently you can keep the chlorine level up, the faster this clean up will go. Test as many times a day as you can, and each time bring the cl back up. There is no such thing as testing and adding bleach too often.

[connier13]

CYA number was 100. The pressure on pump was 15 this afternoon, so, I didn't startt adding bleach yet. Filter can be cleaned in the morning. I can go ahead and add the bleach tonight, but thought the filters may need cleaning first. How can I send a picture of "my swamp"

[Watermom]

A CYA of 100 is WAY too high. And, in actuality, it may be much higher than 100 as that is as high as most test kits can register. Please do NOT add more CYA. I bet the previous owner used trichlor pucks for the source of chlorine for this pool. Trichlor is stabilized and adds CYA with each puck added to the pool. The only way to lower the CYA is to drain and refill. Having said that, you don't ever want to totally drain a pool, especially in a swampy place like Louisiana. Doing so can cause the pool to pop up out of the ground.

You have a couple of options. Option 1 You can either slam it with bleach and eradicate the pool of algae now and then once the pool is clear, you can do several partial drains and refills until you get the CYA to a more manageable level. (Unfortunately, it will take a lot of water replaced probably a couple of times. In a big pool like yours, that may be a substantial amount of water.) if you decide to do this, it will take shocking it way higher than 15 as I originally suggested. With a CYA that high, you'll need to keep the chlorine level at 25-30 to kill the algae. (Required chlorine levels depend on the CYA level in a pool.)

Option 2 is to go ahead and do the partial drains and refills now before adding the bleach. Then, you can attack the algae later. (That will save you some money in bleach.)

Option 3, and the least desirable one in my opinion, is to live with a high CYA level. But, you will have to run higher than normal chlorine levels as a result meanng that you will always have to keep your chlorine between 8-15 all the time or you risk another algae bloom.

Let us know what you think and we'll wallk you through any of these options.

The good news is that once you get the CYA level down to a more manageable level, we can teach you how to keep this from happening again.

[connier13]

I will have to go with option 1 as I have started the bleach. I put in 18 gallons of bleach Monday and the pool has gone from yucky green to the cloudy pale green. I have been sweeping the sides and floor down as much as I am able to. I tested the water every 2 hours Monday and added bleach if it dropped any. I am using a kit from Walmart and I have ordered a Taylor pool tester kit to be able to get better readings. I will add more bleach tonight and just go from there. As soon as the Taylor kit gets here, I will send you my numbers.

If you have any other suggestions, let me know and THANK YOU!!

[aylad]

At this point, you're on the right track--just keep hammering it with bleach and keep your filter running as much as possible (24/7 is ideal), but keep an eye on the pressure because the algae can clog it up quite quickly. You'll eventually see it go to blue/cloudy, then you know you're almost done--then it'll be a matter of letting your filter remove all the dead algae.

I am highly suspicious of your CYA result if your pool was that green--keeping in mind that CYA is a turbidity test, sometimes bad algae blooms will give falsely high results. In any event, once you get the water clean and clear, then let's get another set of test results before you add anything other than bleach to the pool.

Janet

[connier13]

I just received my Taylor K-2006 test. The CYA is 70.

[Watermom]

Wow! You got that kit fast! Glad to hear the CYA is only 70. That is much better than 100 or 100+. Test as frequently as you can and each time hit it again with bleach. You'll have that pool clear in no time! Keep an eye on your cartridge. You'll probably need to clean it frequently.

[connier13]

Test results at 11 am 02/19/11

FC 85
10 CC
130 TA
350 TH
60 CYA

Bottom of pool is black onyx, so I won't be seeing Blue

Right now the pool is a cloudy gray/green

[aylad]

How's the pool looking?

Janet

[connier13]

Very cloudy....it has been 3 weeks now and it is just a hazy grey color. Our polaris was in the shop 2 weeks ago, so, I took a water sample to have it tested. Their test showed everything was ok except it was scaling. I have just been keeping the chlorine level high and keeping the other numbers in range. We have two sets of filters, so, we have changed those as well. I didn't realize it could take this long.

[Watermom]

It would probably be helpful if you could post a current set of water testing numbers for us to look at.

[connier13]

.20 FC
.10 CC
7.6 PH
90 TA
380 CH
60 CYA

Pool is still a grey color...can see bottom to about 4 feet, but cloudy

[aylad]

Your chlorine is WAY too low, especially for your climate. I suspect that it hasn't cleared up because you either didn't kill the algae all the way, or that your chlorine level has been too low for too long and let it get started again. Either way, you're going to need to take the chlorine back up to shock levels ( 20 ppm for a CYA of 60) and hold it there until the pool clears and you are not losing more than 1 ppm of chlorine when measuring at night after the sun is down and again in the morning before the sun hits the pool. Only after you are not losing any more chlorine can you let the chlorine start coming back down again. This may take chlorine additions up to 3-4 times daily, or however often you are able, to keep it above 20 ppm, but that's the only thing that iwll kill the algae off and allow your pool to clear.

Janet

[connier13]

I have kept it high until 3 days ago. we have gotten a lot of rain the past two days.

[Watermom]

When there is a lot of rain, that is a common time for algae to start for two reasons. 1. A lot of debris may fall or be blown into the pool
2. When it rains, many pool owners don't check their chlorine and as a result the cl drops too low and gives algae a chance to start.

[aylad]

Either way, you need to check and see if you're losing chlorine overnight that can't be attributed to the sun. If you are, then the answer is to continue holding it at shock level until you are no longer losing any chlorine to "stuff" in the water.


Janet

[connier13]

We had to drain water last night and it has stormed most of the night. I will drain and shock as soon as day breaks and keep it shocked until clear. I will post new numbers this afternoon.

[connier13]

.6 fc
.15 cc
8.0 ph
90 ta
350 ch
55 cya

[aylad]

Your Chlorine needs to be at an absolute minimum of 5 ppm unless you want algae to start growing--but because it's been low for a few days, especially with the rain in between, I think you probably already have algae blooming, which is why your pool isn't clear. Raise your chorine to shock level and hold it there to clear it up, until you're not losing chlorine overnight.


Janet

[connier13]

Test this morning:

65 FC
5 CC
7.2 PH
100 TA
360CH
55 CYA

[Watermom]

Try those chlorine tests again. I seriously doubt that your FC is 65 and your CC is 5. Re-run those and then repost. Everything else looks ok.

[chem geek]

If you are using a 25 ml sample size, you need to divide the number of drops by 5 (i.e. multiply by 0.2) to get FC and CC levels. If you are using a 10 ml sample size, you need to divide the number of drops by 2 (i.e. multiply by 0.5).

[connier13]

This morning after I ran the numbers, I went to the pool calculator and used it. I added 4 gallons of 6% bleach. My numbers right now are:

FC 15.5
CC 10
PH 7.2
TA 100
CH 360
CYA 55

Still cloudy as it has been since day 1 after shocking. Do I need to bring the FC to 20 and try holding it there?

[aylad]

Yes, with your CYA at 55 ppm, you need to bring FC to 20 and keep it there until you're not losing any chlorine overnight. How are you measuring the CC? Your FC+CC=TC, but there's no way to have a CC of 10 unless your pool is a total swamp....

Janet

[connier13]

I am using the 25ml water level. Today's reading was adding adding 31 drops to get pink water to change to clear for free chlorine. I then aded 5 drops of R0003, then I only had to add 2 drops of R0871 to get the water back clear.

[chem geek]

I am using the 25ml water level. Today's reading was adding adding 31 drops to get pink water to change to clear for free chlorine. I then aded 5 drops of R0003, then I only had to add 2 drops of R0871 to get the water back clear.

So that's 31*0.2 = 6.2 ppm FC and 2*0.2 = 0.4 ppm CC. Given the fairly rapid FC drop and the cloudiness, you need to bring the FC back up higher to shock level. Keep the filter running 24/7. Brush the sides of the pool to remove/expose any algae there.

[connier13]

I said that wrong, it was 31 drops using the 10ml...so 31*.5 was the 15.5 and 2*.5 was the 10 on cc....SORRY

I added 2 more gallons of bleach this afternoon and now my readings are:

20 FC
1.0 CC
7.4 PH
110 TA
380 CH
55 CYA

[connier13]

Reading this morning:

FC 11
CC 1
PH 7.2
TA 100
CH 380

No test for CYA, having to order more.

[aylad]

2*.5 was the 10 on cc....



2 * 0.5 = cc of 1, not 10--that makes a lot more sense. Get your chlorine back up to 20 ppm--if you let it continue to yo-yo up and down, it's not going to clear up. Consistency is the key!!

Also, you don't need to continue testing for CYA each time--that number shouldn't change unless you're doing a huge amount of draining/refilling, or using chlorine that contains stabilizer. Save the reagent unless you start using trichlor or dichlor (which I wouldn't, because your CYA will easily get out of control if you do).

Janet

[connier13]

Latest numbers:

FC 20
CC .5
PH 7.4

[Watermom]

Good. Now, as Janet said above, try and maintain the cl at 20. Test as many times per day as you can and each time (no such thing as doing it too often), add enough bleach to get back to 20. Do this until you can go from sundown one day until sunup the next day without losing more than 1ppm of chlorine.

[connier13]

Ok, have finally got pool to where I am only losing 1 ppm of chlorine. Last night reading was:

Chlorine 19.5 Today: 18.5
CC .5 Today .5
PH 7.2 Today 7.4
TA 90 TA 90
CH 380 CH 380
CYA 38 CYA 38

Pool is still very cloudy.

[aylad]

Ok, you should be just about there. Keep it at shock level for just a couple more days and you should see it starting to clear. Keep the pump running and filtering, backwash as needed, and brush the pool at least daily.

Are you seeing your filter pressure rise? Are you noticing any of the algae coming back into the pool from the return?

Janet

[connier13]

I don't have a backwash valve. This is a Hayward c4025 filter system. I am not noticing any algae and pressure guage has remained the same

[aylad]

Oh, ok, that' s a cartridge system. Have you removed the cartridge and cleaned it since you started this process?

Janet

[connier13]

Ok....water is crystal clear...NOW, my motor has gone out. It is a 2.0 hayward self priming. I have called 3 pool stores and they all say a week to get to us. Can I order this motor and how hard is it to replce with the housing?