Water circulating before testing?

[onemsmom]

I just got my new Taylor test kit & am reading, reading, reading. I remember the pool store saying that the water should circulate at least one hour before testing. If that is true - does it need to be immediately prior/during to testing, or could it have run all day, then be off for an hour or two before testing?

Thanks & I'll post results soon for help - my pool is starting to look like a green pond again.

Jennifer

[PoolDoc]

It's best if your water is circulating before you test it.

But, more to the point, if your water is turning green, your pump should be running continuously, till the pool's cleaned up. And, if you are using any form of chlorine in the pool, put a double dose in.

The longer you put off dealing with algae, the harder it is to clean it up.

PoolDoc

[onemsmom]

I JUST got my Taylor K2006. I did the very first test & added 2 dippers full of R-0870 to 10mL of pool water sample (taken at furthest away from outlet, water has been circulating all day). There was NO color change. The water did not turn pink AT ALL. I'm assuming I have no chlorine. At all. ???? I don't get it. I just dumped in 1 1/2 gals of chlorine (from pool store) yesterday a.m. & have a tab in the floater. What is going on? Pool is green & I'm brand new at this & have no clue what to do. I'm learning from scratch, here.

I have a 24' round vinyl.

Thanks for any help tonight.

Jenn

[PoolDoc]

I merged your two threads.

Loosing 1.5 gallons of bleach in a green pool overnight is pretty much par for the course. On your pool that's only about 7.5 ppm. Algae infested pools can easily consume 10 or 20x what a clean pool would.

Assuming your pool is about 13,000 gallons, (12 x 12 x 3.14 x 3.75 x 7.48)

Test your stabilizer,too.

And, if you see this before you go to bed, add about 4 gallons of bleach tonight.

PoolDoc

[onemsmom]

I did the other tests....unless I messed them up, here are the #'s

pH 7.8
acid demand test - needed one drop - whatever that means??
TA 160
Ca 340
CYA 90

& I'm on my way to WalMart for the bleach now.

Jenn

[aylad]

With your CYA at 90, that means that you have to get your chlorine level up to between 20 and 25 ppm in order to attain shock level that will kill off the algae. 4 1/2 gallons of 6% bleach would do it, but you need to test and add more bleach as often as you can to maintain that 20-25 ppm level until the pool is cleared up. In your pool, each quart of bleach will raise your Cl by approximately 1 ppm, so you can use that as a guide to figure out how much you need to add each time. It is consistently holding your pool at shock level that will kill the algae off, and running the filter 24/7 that will help remove it from the pool. You will need to keep an eye on your filter pressure, and clean the filter as it indicates. Brushing the pool daily during this process helps, too.

I would not use anymore stabilized chlorine in your pool--no more trichlor pucks or dichlor powder, because your CYA is already very high, and that's going to mean keeping higher base levels of chlorine in the pool to keep it from turning green. Plain, unscented bleach will do the trick, but first you need to get it up to that shock level and hold it there until the algae clears up.

Janet

[Watermom]

To add to what Janet said, I would also not using any cal-hypo to chlorinate with. Your calcium hardness is already high. I think if it was my pool and it had high cya, high calcium hardness and somewhat high TA, I'd do a partial drain and refill. This would bring all those levels down to more manageable levels. Do NOT do a total drain, however. You should never totally drain a vinyl pool or you risk ruining your liner. In your pool, I think I would drain half and refill.

[onemsmom]

I'm confused.

I did the chlorine test again this a.m. I used the 10mL sample. I added 2 dippers, it turned pink. Then I added 9 drops of R-0871 for it to turn clear. Then I added 5 drops of R-003, it turned pink. Then I added 1 drop of R-0871 & it turned clear.

I don't understand how to figure out the ppm?

It says "multiply drops in step 3 (9) by drop equivalence in Step 1 (?). Record as ppm FC
It says "multiply drops in step 6 (1) by drop equivalence in Step 1 (?). Record as ppm CC

I used one drop so does that mean I multiply by 1? Please explain so I can do this myself in the future.

The pond is even greener this a.m. The filter pressure is 15 - there is a leak. Husband says it needs a new O ring. I guess I'm going to the pool store this a.m.?? And to WM to buy more bleach. Oh, I took the floating tab out. Won't all the bleach just dissipate w/o the tab? It's very hot & sunny here (Florida).

Jennifer

[onemsmom]

If I partial drain & refill - just so you know - I'd be filling with well water. Is this important for you to know?

Jenn

[Watermom]

The wording in their directions is a little confusing. What it means is --- if you use a 10ml sample, you multiply the number of drops by 0.5. If you use a 25ml sample, you multiply the number of drops by 0.2. The 25ml sample gives you a little more precise reading, but uses more of the reagents. Using the 10ml sample saves your reagents and gives you a reading that is good enough.

Since you used the 10ml sample and it took 9 drops to clear it, 9 x 0.5 is 4.5 So your FC is 4.5. Then, after adding the R-003, it took only one drop to clear it so your CC is 1 x 0.5 or 0.5.

You were right to take the trichlor tab out. It is adding more cya and yours is already way high. Just use bleach. Since you are fighting an algae bloom, test as many times a day as you can and each time, take your chlorine back up to shock level, which for your pool with cya of 90 will be 20-25. The key to killing algae is to sustain high cl readings without letting it yo-yo up and down.

Regarding adding well water if you do a partial drain and refill, yes, that complicates things. Maybe since it is nearing the end of swim season and you will be draining some when you close the pool for the winter and then adding some water in the spring, maybe just live with the high cya for now and deal with the metals issue in the spring. Any chance you could truck some water in for refilling?

A couple other questions I have:
-- Is this a new pool that was just opened for the first time this year? If so, was it filled from the well?
-- Is your pool green and cloudy or green and clear?
-- Have you recently added any well water?

[onemsmom]

No, this is an old pool. Re-filled in the early spring (well water) when liner was replaced. Water was clear & beautiful off & on for a while (had a pool guy coming). Here is the recent series of events as I rememer them:

pool went green
pool guy said the water had "phosphates" or "sulfates" or something, can't remember.
he put something in to treat it
pool guy became undependable
I fired him & started to go to pool store - did everything they told me
pool was clear & beautiful for several weeks
left for 5 weeks (had a new pool guy come - did chemicals only)
he said it kept going green
was starting to get green when we got home & we didn't deal w/ it right away. Then got quite green (of course!)
added some kind of green out stuff pool store told us to add
became cloudy but not green
added clarifier (husbands idea)
still cloudy
added stabilizer (pool store's directions)
got frustrated with pool store - found this site
in the time it took me to get the kit - it turned green.

Here I am. The pool is green AND cloudy.

Had to be out much of today due to prior commitment. Bought O ring today & bleach, will start dealing with this again late tonight & can stay on it from tomorrow on.

I truly appreciate your help.

No recent well water added, actually we've had tons on rain & have drained it off a couple of times lately & it's probably going to pour again this afternoon. and, as a matter of fact, it's a little high now. It pours almost every afternoon here for 15 min or so.

Just FYI - this pool is swimmable most of the year - we live in south-ish Fl.

I hope I have given you all the puzzle pieces you need,

Jennifer

[Watermom]

OK. Glad to hear it is green and cloudy (algae problem) rather than green and clear (metals problem). Go ahead and keep hitting it with bleach as frequently as you can test and redose. Also, run the pump 24/7. It will clear if you consistently maintain shock levels.

As far as whether or not to drain and refill, it is your call. If you can live with the high cya and the subsequent higher chlorine levels, then fine. If you stop using any stabilized chlorine and if you continue to have rain additions and subsequent drainings when the pool gets too high, over time, your cya will come down. But, it will take time. When you do get a lot of rain, run the pump and circulate for awhile after the rain so it gets mixed in with the rest of the water before draining. Otherwise, you'll be draining mostly off the top of the pool via your skimmer which will be the rain water which has no cya in it. This might be the best plan since you are on a well and will avoid the necessity of adding well water and dealing with the possiblity of metals in the well water.

On the other hand, if you want to try and do a partial drain and refill, you'll have to do so carefully with well water. Read through some of the threads in the metals section for some info about dealing with well water.

[onemsmom]

o.k - I am keeping chlorine levels up today & it's starting to look a little better. Here are some questions.

How long after it's not green any more does the chlorine level need to stay up at 20/25?

Once it can be allowed to go down, where should I keep the chlorine # on a daily basis?

Are you saying I should not put the tab back in ever, or just until CYA, etc. are down?

When will it be safe to swim in?

When should I do the full test kit again to report numbers to you again?

p.s. I have been draining from the bottom (i.e. using suction to vacuum the pool while other end of hose is draining out of the pool. This is getting green junk from bottom of pool out of pool w/o going through filter & simultaneously draining pool).

[Watermom]

I would keep the chlorine at shock levels until the pool is clear AND you can go from sundown to sunup without losing more than 1ppm of chlorine. After you can do this, then you can let the chlorine level drift down and then with a cya of 90, you'll need to keep the cl between 5-10 ALL the time. (Necessary chlorine levels are based on your cya reading. Take a look at the "Best Guess" table at this link:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

You should not use any more tabs or any more types of stabilized chlorine products unless your cya level is less than about 30. Then, you can do so for a short while but will need to monitor the cya level. We usually suggest 40-50ppm for cya. Those tabs add a lot of cya quickly. They are fine to use if your cya is low, but if it is 90 as yours is, you should not use them.

You can swim when the water is clear and when you aren't losing more than 1ppm of chlorine overnight.

You should be testing cl at least 2 or 3 times a day and even more often will just speed this process up. Each time, take the cl back up to shock level. Test your pH once a day. Don't retest your cya for awhile. It doesn't change very fast unless you drain and refill a lot of water. While you are clearing this, you might post once a day or once every couple of days to let us know how it is going. If you are consistent with keeping cl at shock level, it should clear pretty quickly. Good luck.

[onemsmom]

Ok, I'm working my hardest to keep the ppm up! It drops quickly! Seems like I'm adding 1.5 to 2 gals of bleach every hour or so. Pool is still green, but is much less cloudy.

the pH is 8+ (way more purpleish than the 8 color)
took 5 drops to clear it.

should I be doing something to lower the pH?

TA is 180

Need anything else? I assumed you didn't want the Ca.

Thanks,

Jenn

[aylad]

Don't worry about the pH bewing a little high, it will usually test falsely high when your chlorine is above 10 ppm or so. However, what do you mean when you say it "took 5 drops to clear it"? Most pH blocks just take the water sample, add 5 drops of the phenol red, then shake and read.....there should be no other drops to make it clear. :confused:

The chlorine is being consumed quickly, but that's normal for a pool with algae in it. As you make progress in killing it off , your chlorine demand will drop, but for now just keep hammering it, keep the filter running, and we'll help you get it cleared up!

Janet

[onemsmom]

Thanks, I feel better now.

It's the "acid demand" test to be done after you add the 5 drops of R-0004 & get the pH color. It says to add R-0005 dropwise & count - compare with color standards until desired pH is matched. See treatment tables to continue.

It took 5 drops until it was in the 7.5 range. I can't find a "treatment table" anywhere, so I wouldn't know what to do. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it until we are through dealing with the chlorine.

Ya know, the pool store had me add a whole bag of "stabilizer" about 2 weeks ago. Is that why my CYA is so high & causing me all of these problems?!

[Poconos]

Since I just modded your post in I'll jump in without having read the whole thread. The acid demand table should be in a little book that came with the kit. Don't have it in front of me but that is what I remember. Some book about water chemistry I believe. Been filed away for years. With 5 drops of ADR to get you to 7.5 says you're pretty high. I know that purpleish color. That table should tell you how much acid to add based on number of drops and pool size in gallons. If someone has that little book please chime in. And yes, that stabilizer jacked up your CYA. If there is suspicion the chlorine level is messing up the pH reading you can try adding a drop of thiosulfate from the alkalinity test before adding the phenol red. That should knock out the chlorine and it will shift the pH reading a little but not much.
Al

[onemsmom]

Well, I'm seeing blue this morning!!! (Though I still can's see the bottom) Woo-hoo. It still fell to 16.5ppm over night, but it's blue. I'll keep the #'s up today. Maybe this will be the last day/night of this, I'm sure making a lot of trips to Wal-Mart for bleach.

I'll report in tonight or tomorrow with updates.

Thanks sooooo much for your help. I see a "blue" light at the end of the tunnel. :)

[Watermom]

Glad to hear there is progress! Consistency is the key. Keep up the good work and keep us posted about how it is going. Hopefully you're about to turn the corner on this.

Re: buying lots of bleach at Walmart. I often get funny looks when I am loading the buggy up with as many jugs of bleach as it can hold at one time. I just tell people my house is REALLY dirty!

[onemsmom]

Still a beautiful shade of blue - but quite cloudy. Why is it cloudy?

Have been checking all day & has still been dropping to about 16ish ppm after a few hours. I'll check again before I go to bed. Hopefully tonight is the night I see less than a 1ppm drop, though that sure seems impossible.

Keep your fingers crossed for me,

Jenn

[Watermom]

It is cloudy because of the dead algae in the water. Run your pump 24/7 while you are working to clear this and let the filter get it. Just keep an eye on your filter pressure. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed, but suspect you are not quite to the less than 1 pm loss overnight point just yet. But, hopefully soon!

[onemsmom]

Anyone still up? I was just about to go to sleep & it's at 21. Should I spike it a little higher before I retire or leave it at 21? If I don't here otherwise, I'll add 1 gal to hit the 25.

[onemsmom]

Well, I'm happy to report that A) I fell asleep and left the pool at 21ppm and B) WHEN I WOKE UP THIS A.M. IT WAS STILL 21PPM!!!!!!!!!!

YAY!!!

O.K. Now what? I remember you told me to let it drift down to a certain number - I'll go back & look that up. Once I hit that number, I'll run the whole test & report back.

If there is anything else I should do, let me know.

p.s. It's still cloudy.

[aylad]

Keep the filter running. The chlorine kills the algae, but the filter removes it from the water, and sometimes it can take awhile, depending on how bad your algae bloom was.

With a CYA of 90, you need to keep your chlorine in the 5-10 range. However, your CYA is on the upper end of that range, so I would keep the chlorine closer to 8-12 if it were my pool.


Janet

[onemsmom]

When I asked when it is safe to swim, a moderator answered "when it's clear" and "when the ppm doesn't drop more than 1ppm.....". I'm assuming the chlorine levels must go down to the 8-12 range first, but did she mean when it wasn't green any more or when the water is no longer cloudy? The kids miss the pool greatly!!!

[onemsmom]

made a mistake reading the CYA #'s for the beginning of my thread. I hope this didn't mess everything up.

I did all of the tests over today and here are the #'s I got.

FC 11
the 0870 barely made it turn pink, then it went clear, so I don't have a CC #
pH 7.7
between 1 & 2 drops to get it to 7.5
TA 180
Ca 310 or 320 - I pushed the last 2 drops out simultaneously
CYA about 36/38. Now, I think the # for before should have been 34. I had read the mL line at "9" & multiplied by 10. I'm so sorry if I caused you to lead me the wrong way.

In any case, using the chart I will figure out where to keep the chlorine. I need to know how to bring the pH down, & whether I should put the tab back in the floater - I think the answer is yes, but I'll make sure before I do it.

The pool is blue, but still very cloudy. Filter is still running continuously.

Jenn

[aylad]

If your CYA is actually in the 30-40 range, then your required chlorine level is 3-6, with shock at 15. You shocked it a great deal higher than that, but it's okay, it didn't hurt anything, it just cleared the bloom up a little faster. In that case, I would not swim in it until the chlorine gets below 10--and then I would wear an old suit just in case of fading. As far as letting them swim while it's cloudy, that's a judgement call that you'll have to make--the cloudiness is from dead algae, which won't hurt them, and possibly made worse by high calcium, which also won't hurt them--but if it's cloudy enough that you can't see somebody that's in deep water and in trouble, then I still wouldn't let them swim until it's clear.

If your CYA is in the 30-40 range, you could probably get away with using a trichlor tab in a floater for just a little longer. It will help drive your pH down, and keep your chlorine up, but it's going to add CYA. If you're not sure, and the CYA may actually be up in the 90s like you originally posted, then I wouldn't use anymore trichlor because the stabilizer is going to get too high to keep the pool clear. IF the tab you've had in the floater is cal-hypo, then you definitely don't need it because your calcium is high enough already--and it's possibly contributing to your cloudy water problem.

Janet