Absentee pool owner

[Heavyhook]

My wife and I purchased a new home about 100 miles from where we are that is out in the country. About two hours drive and 100 miles from our current home. It came with a 2 year old Doughboy above ground pool. 16'X32' 15,600gal. It has a 225 pound sand filter with a 3/4 hp pump.This was about 3 months ago at the end of April. We are only able to be at the new home about every 10 days or so.
We are in the process of moving into the new home but that will not be completed for another 6 weeks or so. Ideally using a service company would be best until we can be there full time. But non exist within 30 miles of our new home.
I have enlisted the help of a relative to help me with the task of keeping chlorine levels up in the pool, but In think they are more interested is swimming in the pool instead of adding chemicals. In 3 months I have experienced 2 algae blooms so far. When we purchased the home the pools previous owner had been using Bromine. From the beginning I could not get a chlorine reading with my Taylor K2005-c kit. From my research online I needed to completely drain the pool to switch over to chlorine. That done I followed the guide lines to balance the water chemistry. 26 lbs of calcium(now only to find out that was a waste of money in a vinyl pool) 4 gal of muriatic acid. I started over with placing five 3" triclor tabs in the floater each week and running the pump 24/7. But then a few rainy days set in the middle of July and the Gfi kicked the circuit breaker feeding power to my filter & pump.
Bang Algae bloom when I came back down. I used 6lbs of supershock to kill the bloom but the water was murky. I purchased a poly-something clarifier from the large W store . It has cleared up about 1/2 of what was in the water along with vacuuming and running the filter. I have used a total of 1/2 a gallon of the clarifier during 3 treatments. My water is still murky looking but I can see the robo vac now running 3'4'' below the surface.
After testing I realized my CYA levels were starting to climb. Now at 32ppm I have switched from Tricolor to calcium/hypocrite 3"tab in my floater. I am also using 1 lb of HTH super shock per week. I have since moved the tabs to my skimmer basket because they were not dissolving in the floater. And chanced the runtime to 14hrs per day from 24/7.
I am sorry for such a long history but now for the nuts and bolts. Since I can only be at the pool every 7-10 days how can I ensure I don't get another bloom before I get completely moved down there in 6 weeks. Once there full time I can start using the 6% bleach. If I cannot keep my chlorine levels up at a shock dose for 3 days is there any chance of getting the water cleared up before then? Thanks Doug

[waterbear]

My suggestion would be to add borates to 50 ppm. 'Borates are an algaestat and I know firsthand that they work. I live in Florida and go away for about 10 dayd to two weeks every July and I just shut my pool completely down while gone (not worried about it being green when I get back because it's easy for me to clear it.) Since I added borates about 4 years ago my pool is not green or even cloudy when I get back. All I do is shock it before I leave. There is no chlorine when I return but I just shock it again and I'm back in business. IMHO, it is a more cost effective solution than weekly additions of polyquat 60 and it has the benefit of improving the 'feel' of the water and helping stabilize the pH because of the secondary borate buffer system.
Here is background on my borate experiment:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=5419

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=4712

Here are instructions on using 20 mule team to add borates:

60 oz. by weight of 20 mule team borax will raise 1000 gallons of water 50 ppm and requires 30 ounces of 20 baum (31.45%) Muriatic acid to maintain the pH.
(12 oz. borax raises 1000 gallons 10 ppm and needs 6 oz acid)

Half the needed amount of borax is dumped into the pool and then half the required acid is then added slowly in the return stream (or diluted in a 5 gal bucket of pool water one or two quarts at a time and then poured into the pool).
Brush the pool to mix the chemicals
Add the second half of the borax and the rest of the acid, brush again.
Circulate for 24 hours non stop then return to your normal pump run time.
Check pH and borate level in 48 hours. If pH is low but in range you are done, If it is high, lower it to 7.6
Actually, I have checked my pH and borates about 2 hours of continuous circulation and if the pH is anywhere between 7.2 and 7.8 I have gone swimming.

For testing borates the LaMotte borate test strip have proven themselves to be superior to all the other strips on the market and provide enough precision to get your borates into the recommended window of 30-50 ppm. I have checked them against the Proteam borate titration test kit time and again they are certainly well in the ballpark! The Proteam test kit is expensive, difficult to find, and not the easiest test to do, btw!
The AquaChek borate strips are much more difficult to read than the LaMotte and seem to have a much shorter shelf life.

[aylad]

Hello, Doug, and welcome to the forum!!

You've got a pretty tricky situation on your hands, to be able to maintain the pool without being there, and it's compounded by the blasted heat that we're having. In order to clear up the algae bloom, you're really going to have to maintain the chlorine at shock levels until it's gone. If you don't go up to shock levels, you may be able to keep the algae from getting any worse, but you've got to get ahead of it in order to kill it off. Unfortunately, if there's algae in the pool, then the chlorine is busy fighting that and not fighting viruses, bacteria, etc. so it's really not safe to swim in. (Maybe pointing that out would make your relative a little more consistent with the adding of the chlorine?). If it's possible to get it to shock level and maintain it until the algae is dead, then you might be able to keep it under control by using Polyquat 60 (the only algaecide we recommend here, and is much better at preventing algae outbreaks than helping once the algae is actually active) along with intermittent doses of chlorine by the relative. Honestly, though, as hot as it is here (I live near Shreveport), it's going to be tough to maintain it long-distance. I have to keep my CYA much higher than other folks do (80 ppm--on purpose!!) in order to keep chlorine in my pool, since it's in the humid climate and in full sun all day. You might find that upping your CYA, say to 50 or so, will help you keep more of your chlorine in the pool.

Janet

[Heavyhook]

When I super shocked my pool with HTH Cal/Hypo @ 6 one pound packages in my 12,600 gallon pool the water went from dark green to a medium Light blue color. I assumed the algae had been killed , although physically it still remained (dead) in the water. And this dead organic matter was what was making the water cloudy. There was actually a sludge type material floating on the bottom of the pool. I vacuumed all I could find by hand then ran my robo robot cleaner for two days until no other debris was being collected. The Robo in is able to collect very fine material in its filter. Am I off base with these conclusions? That I had actually killed the algae when I super shocked it. That was my intension and the reason to add that much Cal/Chlor at once. I think I got the dosage amount out of the instruction book that came with my Taylor K-2005c test kit.
Using the borates sound like something that could be very beneficial for my situation. Is my math correct in that I will need almost 47 pounds of 20 mule team borax to get my 12500 gallons up to your recommended 50 ppm. 60 Oz's by weight per 1000 gal X 12.5 gal = 750 Oz's. divided that by 16 Oz's per pound is 46.87 pounds?? I hope this stuff is cheap.
I need a little more help in understanding what amount of CYA I need to have in my pool. From reading threads in this forum it seems like the more CYA you have the higher amount of free chlorine you need to have also. If the amount of Free chlorine you need to have goes up does not your cost of the chemicals being put in the pool also increase? I understand that the CYA stabilizes the chlorine so its not destroyed as rapidly by the UV rays, but where does the break point come in? Is this where the strength of the suns rays comes in to play and the type of weather you experience in your particular area? My pool is located about 30 miles north of Waco and 70 miles south of Fort Wort in North Central Texas. We normally experience summer temps in the high 90's to low 100's. Some summers we can get as much as 45 consecutive days of 100 plus temps. This past week we have been 106-108 degrees. Thats kind of abnormal but I can remember in the late 70's when a two week stretch went to 116-117 degree days. I consider that Phoenix and Las Vegas type weather. But normally we start to see temps hit 100 around the first part of June and it last until the middle of September. Our humidity is very high here but we normally have clear Sky's so lots of sunshine. The occasional Turkey Vulture overhead is the only shade we see.
So my next trip down in a week I will add the borax and adjust the Ph as instructed with muriatic acid. Get the bleach out and raise the FC and maintain @ 25-30ppm while running the filter continuously for 72 hours. Do I need to add any poly quate 60 algaecide? When I return the future times I will shock in the evening when the suns low in the sky. Does the shock need to get the water back up to the 25-30 ppm level again each time I do that?
I purchased 4 lbs of CYA at my local pool store 2 weeks ago but have not used any so far. My 32ppm CYA has come from using Trichlor for six weeks. So far That is the only purchase I have made from a pool store. I have been relying on research done on the net and info from my Taylor k-2005c test kit. The test kit has already misled me by having me put 26 pounds of calcium chloride in my vinyl pool to balance the water,when it was not needed!
When I leave for my next absence should I load my skimmer up with cal/hypo 3" tabs( I found that when placing cal/hypo tabs in a float type despiser that they just got soft and mushy but did not dissolve like the triclor tabs had before) and get my relative to replenish that as necessary while I'm gone? I have had my filter set up to run from 7am to 8pm during my absence. Should I leave that the same or change to 24/7 until I can be there full time.
Thanks so much for your guidance! It is really appreciated ,Doug

[waterbear]

Is my math correct in that I will need almost 47 pounds of 20 mule team borax to get my 12500 gallons up to your recommended 50 ppm. 60 Oz's by weight per 1000 gal X 12.5 gal = 750 Oz's. divided that by 16 Oz's per pound is 46.87 pounds??
Yes, It comes in 76 oz boxes (4.75 lb.) and costs about $3 a box at grocery stores, walmart, target, etc. You will need a bit less than 10 boxes for the initial dosing.

This is the box (http://www.20muleteamlaundry.com/)you are looking for at the store.

You will also need about three gallons of 20 baum (31%) muriatic acid, which is usually abut $5 a gallon or less.
You should also pick up a tube of LaMotte Borate test strips (http://www.h2osupplies.com/insta_test_borate.html) for about $10. They are far superior to any other borate strips I have used, MUCH easier than the expen$ive Proteam Borate drop test kit, and are precise enough to keep you in the 30-50 ppm 'sweet spot' for borates in a chlorine pool.
When the borate levels drop to 30 ppm bump them back up to 50 ppm with borax and acid. I need to do this about every 1.5 years in my pool so far.

I hope this stuff is cheap.
It is.

I need a little more help in understanding what amount of CYA I need to have in my pool. From reading threads in this forum it seems like the more CYA you have the higher amount of free chlorine you need to have also.
While that is true the amount of chlorine actually consumed tends to stay the same or actually go down a bit. In very hot, sunny climates CYA as high as 80 ppm is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as adjustments to the chlorine levels are made to compensate. Also, there is some limited evidence that CYA levels above about 70 ppm actually have a secondary shielding effect against UV that cannot be explained by the chemistry alone and might be an actual 'sunscreen" effect that increases with depth. Chemgeek can explain more about this than I can.

Consider that pool services that use gas chlorination in plaster pools routinely use CYA levels of around 150 ppm to maintain a workable FC level for a week between chlorinations and that this method is very successful at maintaining a clear pool.


Do I need to add any poly quate 60 algaecide?
Not with the borates, It wouldn't hurt but is an unneeded expense, IMHO. Also if you are going to shock be aware that polyquat does have an effect on chlorine levels. IF, after adding borates, you still have a problem with algae then a weekly dose of polyquat would be a second level of "insurance" but I do not think you will need it.

When I return the future times I will shock in the evening when the suns low in the sky. Does the shock need to get the water back up to the 25-30 ppm level again each time I do that?
I purchased 4 lbs of CYA at my local pool store 2 weeks ago but have not used any so far. My 32ppm CYA has come from using Trichlor for six weeks.
With a CYA of 30 ppm (I know of no way you could get 32 ppm reading from a
Taylor kit, it does not have that kind of precision!) you only need to shock to about 15 ppm. This chart (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365)should be helpful to you in where to maintain your chlorine and where to shock. Too high a chlorine level in a vinyl pool could cause bleaching of your liner!:eek:


Hope this is helpful.

[Heavyhook]

Thanks Waterbear,
The borax is cheap at $3.00 a box. So the initial cost of adding that is very reasonable. I remember passing the 20 mule team mine in the southern California desert some 30 to 40 years ago as a child.
I actually have about 5 gallons of Muriatic Acid I recently purchased from Lowe's in there pool supply dept. But I don't recall off hand the % of acid it is. The water supply I have is very alkaline. Is the "Baum 20" a specific brand name?
To get the 32ppm CYA, I used the 9ML side in the comparator that is part of the Taylor k-2005c test kit. Filling the tube untill the black dot on the bottom disappeared. There are lines on the outside that indicate 10,20,ect. the amount of CYA ppm. As I recall its about 1/4" between each graduation. My test showed I had filled just above the 30ppm mark. Hence best guess a result 32 ppm?
Taken in account my location and strong sunlight during the majority of the pool season would it be advisable to bump my CYA up to 50 ppm? It seems like what I am hearing is the actual amount may be some what subjective. I just do not want to make the mistake of raising it to high when I just drained and refilled my pool 6 weeks ago. I still have about 25lbs of Tricor 3" pucks I would like to use up if raising my CYA is advisable! Thanks again and I have already ordered the LaMotte Borate test strips you recommended so they will be on hand when I go to add the Borax.

[aylad]

When I super shocked my pool with HTH Cal/Hypo @ 6 one pound packages in my 12,600 gallon pool the water went from dark green to a medium Light blue color. I assumed the algae had been killed , although physically it still remained (dead) in the water. And this dead organic matter was what was making the water cloudy.

You're right that the cloudiness was dead algae, which will be removed by the filter--however, it's still possible that it isn't all dead yet. We usually recommend that the shock level be maintained until the water clears, the CC is less than 0.5, and you don't lose any chlorine when testing at night and again in the morning before the sun hits the pool. THEN you know it's all dead! :)


I need a little more help in understanding what amount of CYA I need to have in my pool. From reading threads in this forum it seems like the more CYA you have the higher amount of free chlorine you need to have also. If the amount of Free chlorine you need to have goes up does not your cost of the chemicals being put in the pool also increase? I understand that the CYA stabilizes the chlorine so its not destroyed as rapidly by the UV rays, but where does the break point come in?

I am one of those people that find that much higher CYA levels actually cuts my chlorine cost instead of raising it, as I alluded to in my post above. Even though it initially takes more bleach to get to the "normal" chlorine levels, once you're there, it costs no more to keep it there than it does to maintain the proportionally lower levels in a lower CYA pool. For example, with a CYA of 30, and a target chlorine level of 3-6 ppm, I was losing 3-4 ppm chlorine daily, so I had to add about a gallon of bleach daily to compensate. With my CYA at 80, and a target chlorine level of 5-10, I'm only losing 1-2 ppm per day, so I can add the larger jug (196 oz) of bleach every 2 or 3 days and still maintain the minimum 5 ppm required--and I don't have to make daily additions!! Then when I need to shock, it takes no more bleach to get from 10 to 20 ppm than it does to get from 5 to 15 ppm.

I am only about 3 1/2 hours from you, so my climate is nearly identical to yours. Each pool is different, and you'll find through experience what works best for your pool, but the regimen I described above works VERY well for me!

Janet

Edit: If it were my pool, I'd go ahead and use up the trichlor that you have. Even if you go up to 50 or so and don't like it that high, it's very easily reduced by backwashing and splashout back down to the 30s. The Cal-hypo tabs are not good at all--they used to make one in a capsule that dissolved just like the trichlor tabs, but these newer ones just go to mush no matter where you put them. Yuk.

[waterbear]

If it were my pool, I'd go ahead and use up the trichlor that you have. Even if you go up to 50 or so and don't like it that high, it's very easily reduced by backwashing and splashout back down to the 30s. The Cal-hypo tabs are not good at all--they used to make one in a capsule that dissolved just like the trichlor tabs, but these newer ones just go to mush no matter where you put them. Yuk.

I agree! (Isn't amazing how sick minds think alike!) :eek::cool:
(Janet, don't ban me from the board, I promise to behave!):rolleyes:





(maybe):D


Heavyhook,
re: CYA test. The scale is not linear as you have noted so it is really harder to get a precision greater than 5 ppm on the CYA test. If it is close to 30 call it 30, if it is close to 40 call it 40, if it is somewhere in the middle call it 35. You really do not have any more precision than that with this test (and probably not even that much.)
Remember it's just a pool, not rocket science!;)

[aylad]

I agree! (Isn't amazing how sick minds think alike!) :eek::cool:


Ooh, now that's scary!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Janet

[Heavyhook]

Thanks for all the help. I shocked and held my chlorine level above 30ppm for 72 hours. I also have borates at 50 ppm. I can come back down to my new home after 8 or 9 days and the water is still clear. Just need to vacuum all the dirt off the bottom of the pool. My pool is out and the country and every day I have a considerable amount of dirt that has settled on the bottom. I just spend 10 minutes brushing and I'm done until the next day. It has been very windy the last few weeks in North central Texas but that should get better as we get into the cooler weather. I did raise my Cya to 55ppm and now I only put a gallon and one bleach in every 2 or 3 days. I load my skimmer up with cal- hypo tabs before I leave for a week or so and it seems to do the trick. I will soon be where the pool is full time so it will be much easier to deal with . You'll really cured a big headache for me. Best Wishes! Doug

[aylad]

Glad you found a workable solution. Hope your move goes well for you!

Janet

[waterbear]

Ditto! Glad my advice on the borates worked for you.;)