Frustrated with algae and chlorine

[mnhwinn]

Hello all - so thankful to find this site after spending enough $$ at the dang pool store!! Hoping you can get my pool back to algae free side walls!

Info on my pool:

In ground, free form, gunite, plaster, 9 year old pool. Only started having trouble with algae last year. 16,000 gallons. Cartridge filters - run filters nightly for 4 hours. Use chlorine.

Took water today to have it tested at pool store:

FC = 0
CC = not sure what that means?
TC = 0
PH = 7.4
TA = 80
CYA = 20
CH = 340
phospates = 200

My biggest complaints are that I can't keep chlorine in the pool, and green algae is continuously growing on the plaster, as well as the moss rock that is "on beam" on one entire side of pool with rock waterfall.

Can someone please give me a recommendation as to how to claim my algae free pool back! I'm so frustrated with spending hundreds of dollars at the pool store and getting the same result........ none!

Thanks for your help ahead of time! :)

[aylad]

Hi, mnhwinn, and welcome to the forum!!!

It sounds to me like the algae has just gotten hold and is eating up your chlorine as fast as you're putting it in, so you're not able to get ahead of it far enough to kill it off. Just because it visibly disappears doesn't mean it's completely gone, which is why accurate testing is necessary.

First off, what method are you using for testing? We don't recommend strips--they're just not accurate and reliable enough for normal testing, let alone clearing up a problem. Pool stores often aren't the most reliable, either. We recommend that you get a good, drop-based kit. We like the Taylor K-2006, which can be found online for $50-$70 at a number of sites--can give you links if you like. I know it seems like a big expense, but it's going to be your #1 tool in keeping your pool clean and clear, and I'm betting it's less expensive than what you've already unsuccessfully put into your pool!!


First of all, TC= FC + CC. total chlorine = free chlorine (chlorine available to kill the algae) + combined chlorine (chlorine already involved in the battle). The goal is to have zero CC and have all of the chlorine in the pool available. You say that you use chlorine--what type? liquid chlorine, bleach, cal-hypo, trichlor, dichlor are all different types of chlorine, but each has its own effect on water chemistry. We need to know what type of chlorine you're using, also what chemicals (ingredients, not brand names, please) you've put into your pool since this battle began.

In order to clear up the algae and keep it away, you're gonna have to kill it first. With a CYA of 20, I would shock your pool using plain, unscented bleach to get the chlorine up to 15 ppm. In a pool your size, starting with 0 chlorine, that means 4 gallons of 6% (ultra) bleach. Test the water and add whatever amount of bleach it takes to get back up to the 15 ppm as often as you can daily, because to kill off the algae you need to keep that chlorine level consistent at 15 ppm until 1)the water is clear and algae gone, 2)the CC is zero, and 3) you don't lose more than 1 ppm chlorine when testing at sundown and sunup. In your pool, each quart of 6% bleach will raise your chlorine by 1 ppm, so you can use that as guide when figuring how much you need to add back in. If you keep it consistent, brushing the pool at least once daily, and keep the filter running 24/7, cleaning as the pressure indicates, then it will clear up. The key to keeping it clear, once those three conditions above are met, is going to be consistent chlorination--never letting your chlorine drop below 3 ppm.

[mnhwinn]

Yay! Thanks so much for the reply! I love this forum.

Answers to your questions: I am using just a cheap standard pool kit for testing - rainbow guard is the manufacturer and it is just a liquid drop kit. Nothing special. If you could supply links to a place where I can purchase a reliable kit, as you mentioned, I would appreciate that.

Ok, now chemicals I've put into my pool since this began: shocking at least once a week with either 52% calcium hypochlorite or I've also used 73% calcium hypochlorite. I have a chlorine floater that has 3" 99.4% trichloro-s-triazinetrione. After I do any of this, and test my chlorine the following morning after adding to the pool at night, the chlorine is gone..... I've also put in about a gallon of monosodium cyanurate monohydrate 35%, about a liter of phos free (can't find chemical name on the bottle??), and about 16 oz of poly[oxyethylene(dimethyliminio)ethylene(dimethyliminio )ethylene dichloride] 60%.

I will follow the directions you gave me in your last post, and if you have any more to add, I'm all ears!

When I add the bleach - what is the best way to add it?

Thanks so much!!!!!

[Watermom]

The kit we recommend is the Taylor K-2006. You can buy it through this link and Pool Forum will get a donation which will help keep us online.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006

Don't throw any more stuff in your pool at this point other than bleach. Test it as many times a day as you can, and each time take it back to shock level as Janet said. In a 16,000 gallon pool, each quart of 6% bleach will raise your cl by just about 1ppm. You can either pour the bleach slowly into the skimmer while the pump is running (what I do) or you can slowly pour it in front of a return jet while the pump is running.

Hope this helps. Come back if you have more questions and keep us posted how things are going.

You may want to raise your CYA level a little after the pool is cleared up. Ask us about that after the algae battle is won.

Go order a good kit ASAP!

[mnhwinn]

The link takes me to an area which says I don't have permission to be in....... :(

[aylad]

try www.amazon.com and then search for the Taylor k-2006 test kit. (You don't want the K-2005, make sure it's the dpd-fas kit).

Janet

[Watermom]

But, if she/he just goes to amazon.com, I'm not sure PF gets the donation.

I had Ben check into this problem for you and he thinks you should now be able to see the page. But, the link on the page to Amazon is broken, meaning you can't click on it and have it open to Amazon. But, you can copy and paste the link into a browser window and get there that way. Let us know when you try again if you were able to see the page.

[mnhwinn]

Yes, great, was able to get to it that way....

One more question - should I wait for the kit to arrive before starting to dump in the bleach? Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to moniter a chlorine leverl over 3ppm with my kit.

[Watermom]

No, don't wait. You can use your cheap kit in the meantime and force it to go higher with a dilution method until your kit arrives. Read more about it in this thread:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?p=65545#post65545

[mnhwinn]

Ok, will start dumping my massive amounts of bleach in tonight. :) Will keep you posted.... thanks so much for your help!

[mnhwinn]

sorry! One more question: do I take out the chlorine floater with the tabs in it?

[Watermom]

It is fine to keep it in. Your CYA is low so that tab will also be adding CYA as well as chlorine. Just make sure it is away from where the bleach is being poured in. You will not want to use the tabs indefinitely, however. Once your CYA gets to around 40, I wouldn't use any more trichlor tabs. Probably run your CYA test again in a couple of weeks and see where it is. Don't want the CYA to get too high or that starts a whole different set of problems.

[mnhwinn]

Ok, added 4 gallons of bleach last night, left the pump running all night and day and is still currently on. Was unable to test the water until this evening when I got home from work. CL level test this evening is 0.3!!! :( Where do I go from here? Should I add another 4 gallons, and test every 4 hours? Problem is, I'm at work for a majority of the day - including tomorrow.

[Watermom]

As often as you possibly can, add enough bleach to get back to shock level. There is no such thing as doing it too often. The more often, the faster it will clear up.

[mnhwinn]

Ok, looks like I'm on my way to getting this resolved! :) Thanks so much! I have been able to moniter the pool for the last 24 hours checking frequently, and it seems that it is getting better. Is is at least holding chlorine for several hours at a time now. My question now is, I am leaving for vacation in a week and am wondering what I will need to do to keep it clear. I plan to clean the filters when the pool is holding the chlorine at 15 ppm from sun up to sun down (hoping that will be within the next 4 days), and then after that, what are your recommendations before I leave on vacation?

[CarlD]

If it's not clear before you leave then it will be tough and I'm not sure what to tell you other than keep the pump running and have someone add chlorine everyday. If you can keep it covered as well that should help.

If it is clear then I suggest the following steps.
1) Make sure you test values are where you want them.
2) Add 1 quart of Polyquat 60% and wait 48 hours.
3) boost your FC to shock level and cover the pool
4) have someone add a gallon of bleach every other day

That should hold....and that's what I do.

[mnhwinn]

At what point should I let the kids back in the pool?

[aylad]

You need to keep the shock level up until you're not losing any chlorine when measuring at sundown and sunup. After that you can let the chlorine start to drift back down, and the kids can get back in. Once it gets below 8 or 9 ppm I wouldn't have a problem getting back in, although I'd wear old suits in case of fading and rinse their hair well after getting out to make sure the chlorine doesn't dry it out.

Janet

[mnhwinn]

Ok, my pool is looking SO much better, and I am SO happy! My kids keep asking why the pool looks so blue! I know it's on its way to being algae free! It hasn't looked this good in a couple of years.

I have been scrubbing the entire pool every night for the past week. I'm wondering, though, the stuff that I can see floating in the water (at night with the light on when I scrub) that looks like jelly fish texture - see through floaty slime - is that indicative of an algae problem still? It has gotten a ton better since I began this process a week ago, but it is defintely still there when I stir things up and scrub.

[aylad]

It is probably just the slime/biofilm that algae produces that you're getting off the walls of the pool when you scrub. The filter should take care of it.

Are you still shocking, or have you reached the point yet where you can let the chlorine come down?

Glad it's improvig. It's really nice to see that clear, beautiful blue color again, huh? :cool:

Janet

[mnhwinn]

I am still shocking, but it is holding chlorine really well now. My new test kit is due to be delivered today, so I feel that I will have a more accurate idea of what is going on after I get that. I have been having to use the dilution method with distilled water to calculate the chlorine levels for the past week, and I feel that has been a bit tough, so I am just keeping a lot of chlorine in to be safe. Excited for my new test kit to arrive!

Yes, it is great to see that beautiful pool again! Thanks to all of you! I forgot how gorgeous it could be!

[mnhwinn]

My test kit was delivered today! Here are the current numbers:

FC - 5
CC - .5
TC - 5.5
CYA - 40
PH - 7.3
TA - 70
CH - 400

What do you think? :)

[CarlD]

If your water is clear, these are excellent numbers. If your water is NOT clear then you are well on your way to being clear.


My test kit was delivered today! Here are the current numbers:

FC - 5 This is good

CC - .5 If this is because you're testing with 10ml you may want to run the test with 25 ml (each drop is .2, instead of .5) If it then tests as .2 you are FINE!

TC - 5.5 See above--it may really be 5.2, which is fine

CYA - 40 FC levels should be between 3 and 6 so you are fine. But I'd stop using the tri-chlor pucks unless you feel the need to raise it higher--you are FINE here

PH - 7.3 A TAD low but I would NOT add anything to raise it--let aeration (splashing) take care of slowly raising pH to about 7.5 or 7.6. On the plus side your chlorine is more effective at this level.

TA - 70 This is a good level. Keep it here especially with your CH at 400.

CH - 400 This is the very high end of normal for concrete pools. It's OK but you do NOT want to go any higher, so you should NOT use Cal-Hypo to shock your pool or you risk the water going cloudy and scaling on anything metal.

What do you think? :)

I went back over your posts. You had also added PolyQuat (good) ("16 oz of poly[oxyethylene(dimethyliminio)ethylene(dimethyliminio )ethylene dichloride] 60%.") but then your FC was low and you couldn't get it back up for a couple of days. That's normal.

You may want to add an ounce of Polyquat once a week.

You added phosphate reducer. Don't. It's a HUGE waste of money and nowhere near justified for your phosphate level. We have users with levels of 3000 who have NO problems maintaining their pools without reducers.

You added a liquid CYA additive. That probably was what got your CYA to 40ppm... That's fine.

You used Cal-Hypo shock packs--that's why your calcium is at the high end and shouldn't be used any more.

You used Tri-chlor pucks which helped keep your pH down (Cal-Hypo raises it) but still in the safe range. Tri-chlor adds CYA as well, so, for now, you shouldn't be using them.

You've also been adding bleach/liquid chlorine and that is just fine!

If you are unsure about your CC, add bleach or LC to get your FC to 15 and that should clear it. But you can also use the K-2006 using a 25ml sample rather than a 10ml sample and this will measure FC and CC levels in .2 increments, rather than .5 increments. If CC is actually .2 (which you cannot tell at the 10ml level) then don't worry about it.

You have done GREAT!

[mnhwinn]

Wow! I am so grateful!! This forum has been such a life saver for my pool and my pocket book! I thank you SO much!!!

The details you just provided are so much appreciated - thank you for taking the time. I have spent so many hours over this past week, reading through posts on this forum, so everything you told me makes perfect sense, and I completely understand it. Woo hoo! :)

I will run my test with the 25ml, because as you suspected, I used the 10ml.

My pool looks incredible. Thanks so much!

I am leaving for vacation (as I mentioned before) in two days, and will be gone for a week. Do you recommend the same as was recommended before? I will be able to have the person who is watching my house add bleach for me, and the filters will be on a program. Is it still necessary to add the quart of poly before I go, or just an ounce for the week I will be gone?

[Watermom]

If you have someone who is going to add bleach for you throughout the week, you don't really need to add the quart of Polyquat, although it won't hurt if you do. If you do decide to add it, just be aware that it will drop your cl level and then you'll have to bring it back up. If it were my pool and I had someone who would come by every other day or so to add bleach, I probably wouldn't add the Polyquat. In fact, I never use it except in the fall before I close my pool. Some people routinely add a little bit, but I never have and have never had any problems with my pool.

[CarlD]

When I first suggested the quart of Polyquat I hadn't realized you had already added 16oz of it.

So I would suggest adding one ounce, and having your "pool angel" add a gallon of bleach every other day (or add 2 quarts everyday). This should be perfect. If chlorine goes a bit too high? So what? You have a concrete pool and it can stand extremely high chlorine levels (unlike vinyl). All that will do is ensure it is sanitary. It will come down on its own.