Newbie - Stain removal via ascorbic acid

[herb396]

I have a 25K gal plaster pool which was painted 2 summers ago. In doing our opening this became victim to a stain which is covering about 85% of the surface,,it's darker in the shallow areas and on steps.

So after finding this site I ordered 5lbs of the ascorbic acid and just completed the treatment application that Marie (mbar) was kind enough to type out. Problem is that it produced very little results. The only thing that cleared up was my top step. I followed the instructions my lowering my chlorine to zero (had it tested at the local pool store) and set the filter to By Pass to Pool, waited thru the process (waiting to be amazed) and even ended up using the entire 5lbs. Two hours later, little to no improvement. I spot tested an area using a sock with the ascorbic acid and it did wipe clean.

Help!

My current readings are:
Saturation Index: 0
TDS: 700
CYA: 100
Tot Chlorine: 0
Free Chlorine: 0
pH: 7.4
Tot. Alk: 150
Adj. Total Alk: 120
Tot. Hardness: 244
Copper: 0.5

[aylad]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

Just wanted to let you know that I asked Ben (Pooldoc) to come by and take a look at your thread to see if he could help you out, since stain removal is not in my area of knowledge.

Also wanted to let you know that when you post a thread, it goes into a queue of posts to be approved by either one of the moderators or Ben. That's why when you posted this thread the first time, you didn't see it--it took me a few minutes to get it modded in--so when you reposted the same thread, it came into the queue as a duplicate. I have deleted the duplicate thread that you posted, so that all the responders to your question can keep their information about this question in this one thread. In the future, if you post something and then don't see it appear immediately, it just means one of us has to mod it in first. It may not be immediate, but we'll get it in the forum as quickly as we can, so try not to duplicate it. There are 4 mods, plus Ben--and between us all, somebody's around the forum almost all the time.

Janet

[PoolDoc]

Hi Herb;

Just to add to what Janet said, for subscribers, your posts appear instantly, once you've posted 6x successfully.

And, now on to the stains. Before I try to give answers, I need to get some myself:

If I understand you correctly, you have a plaster pool that was unstained till this spring? And the stains appeared when you were opening the pool?

Did the stains appear as soon as you could see the sides? (That is, did they develop over the winter) Or, did you start off clear and unstained, and have the stains appear AFTER you could see the sides and bottom of the pool?

What color are the stains?

Are you on city water or well water?

Is your pool filled with the same water that fills your toilets? If yes, what color is the interior of your toilet tank?

Looking at your test results, do you know why you had a positive result for copper? Have you added copper algaecide or used a 'mineral' product or operated a ionizer or used a Nature2 unit?

Have you used a silver algaecide?

Do you have a heater? If yes, what kind?

What condition was your pool water in when you opened?

How many gallons are in your pool . . . or what size is it?

What sort of filter do you have?

What chemicals did you use at opening? What chemicals have you used since?


. . . that should be enough, for now. ;)

By the way, I'm going to be tied up this weekend, and so is Marie I think. So if you can post before 10 pm tonight, I'll try to respond. Otherwise, you may have to wait till Tuesday.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[herb396]

If I understand you correctly, you have a plaster pool that was unstained till this spring? And the stains appeared when you were opening the pool? - We have had minor stains in the past,,but two years ago we had new coping and tile put on,,so pool was drained acid washed and painted...filled with well water. Last year there was no staining issues.

Did the stains appear as soon as you could see the sides? (That is, did they develop over the winter) Or, did you start off clear and unstained, and have the stains appear AFTER you could see the sides and bottom of the pool? The process started off clear and developed as the water was clearing up

What color are the stains? light brown

Are you on city water or well water? well

Is your pool filled with the same water that fills your toilets? If yes, what color is the interior of your toilet tank? Yes and we do have some residual staining in the toilet tanks, especially if the softer is low on salt.

Looking at your test results, do you know why you had a positive result for copper? Have you added copper algaecide or used a 'mineral' product or operated a ionizer or used a Nature2 unit? - No guess on the copper,,that reading seems to go away at different times,,we did hit it with a heavy does of algaecide thinking the stain was algae put with hTh brand.

Have you used a silver algaecide? We used the hTh brand from Wal-Mart

Do you have a heater? If yes, what kind? - Yes we do have a gas heater but I cut the line and by passed about a month ago to try and rule this out.

What condition was your pool water in when you opened? - Water was clear and pool was dirty,kind of green ,,we have a mesh cover but a lot of oak trees surround it,,so we set a lot of sediments from leaves and debri.

How many gallons are in your pool . . . or what size is it? - approx 25,ooo gals

What sort of filter do you have? - We have a sand filter,,just cleaned out last week and put in new Zeobrite

What chemicals did you use at opening? What chemicals have you used since? - Our opening began with vacuumed to waste and running the pump 24/7 for the first three weeks (starting in late May), pool wasn't really clearing up so we began using then generic tablets in the skimmer,,,pool stayed green very light improvement,,,tested at local store, typical raise pH and Alk so we added the generic stuff as directed,,was told our free chlorine was zero many times over several weeks,,,I then I dumped about 10 gals of liquid chlorine in,,still didn't seen to hold any chlorine, was told to start using the BioGaurd shock and put 10 scopes in a day,water then started to be more cloudy/white,,,,stains could then be seen more. Thats when we blasted wit with algaecide (about two bottles) stain did seen to lift a little) ,,chlorine levels then became stable,,I then put a bottle of crystal blue in,,water slightly cleared up. Water was now testing good balance ,,had a pool party with kids, water was splashed around all day (there was some foaming),,but for a full week the water is crystal clear.

Lots of info I know,,but feel very lost at the moment. Thank you

[PoolDoc]

Ok.

Most likely, you have iron in your well water. Many people don't realize that water softeners remove iron. If you filled with water that had passed through the softener, the iron would have been removed . . . UNTIL the zeolite in the softener was saturated with iron. With most wells, the water needed to refill with the pool would have saturated your zeolite (not Zeobrite) several times over.

In the past, you may not have had problems because you didn't use enough water to 'break through' your softener. But, once you had to the fill the pool, watch out!

(Of course, if you have never used softened water to fill your pool, you can forget all this, except as a reference for the future.)

One other issue: it's quite an irony, but the most common way to REMOVE stains, acid washing, ends up making pool surfaces much MORE susceptible to staining. Acid washing works by corroding away the top layer of plaster, exposing a new white -- but rough and porous -- surface.

Unfortunately, iron stains that have been in place for awhile don't always come up that easily.

Here's your best bet:

0. Start running your pump 24/7.

1. Carefully lower your pH to 6.4 - 6.8. If your kit only goes to 6.8, carefully lower it to that, and then add a little more acid. Keep it there for several weeks. (In essence, you are doing a very, very mild acid wash, among other things.)

2. Use twice weekly doses of polyquat 60 to allow you to run low levels of chlorine without getting a pool full of algae.

3. Maintain low chlorine levels between 0.5 and 2 ppm.

4. Add 1 1/2 times the maximum dose on Metal Magnet or a similar liquid metal control agent. Be sure to allow for any prior use in the past 2 weeks: deduct that from what you add.

5. Brush the pool a lot, especially starting a day after you get the chems in line.


If you're lucky, this will remove the stains gradually. If they do, remember that you are NOT done. You will have moved the iron OFF your pool walls, but BACK into your pool water. You've still got get the iron OUT of your pool, and ONTO your filter.

Chlorinate by putting trichlor tabs in the skimmer. Doing so will help lower the pH and will tend to bring the iron out on the filter. Backwash as needed. If the backwash is orange-brown from the iron, you are making progress.

After two weeks, you're pretty much done: if the iron is not off by then, you'll have to think about replastering, painting, acid washing again, or just living with it.

You can also remove the iron by concentrated application of "Iron Out" which is available from the company in 50# pails. This requires a drained pool, too. BTW, do NOT use Iron Out if you have asthma, and DO have someone around to 'rescue' you if there's a problem. Sodium hydrosulfite (present in Iron Out) fumes can trigger SEVERE acute asthmatic attacks.

Regardless, start bringing your pH up SLOWLY, using borax. Once you get up to 7.6 or so, remove ALL trichlor from your system. (Really! Make sure that there is absolutely NONE anywhere in your pool, pipes or feeder!) Then begin chlorinating using calcium hypochlorite granular chlorine, added DIRECTLY to the skimmer in small doses. Buy some from Leslie's if you need to do so.

Gradually raise the chlorine to around 20 ppm (given your CYA of 100+) and hold it there for at least a week.

Once you've done so, all or most of the iron in your pool water will be gone. And, you'll have removed stains you're likely to remove without draining.

Good luck,

Ben

[herb396]

Ben,
I appreciate the guidance, feels like I've been at a total loss with no plan. I have a few questions:

1. Carefully lower your pH to 6.4 - 6.8. (what do I do to lower the pH?) then add a little more acid (meaning the same ascorbic acid ?) (how much is a little?) Keep it there for several weeks. In essence, you are doing a very, very mild acid wash, among other things.

2. Use twice weekly doses of polyquat 60 to allow you to run low levels of chlorine without getting a pool full of algae. (understood)

3. Maintain low chlorine levels between 0.5 and 2 ppm. (is the pool swimmable during this time?)

4. Add 1 1/2 times the maximum dose on Metal Magnet or a similar liquid metal control agent. Be sure to allow for any prior use in the past 2 weeks: deduct that from what you add. (would Pool Stain Treat by United Chemicals be an equivalent?)

5. Brush the pool a lot, especially starting a day after you get the chems in line. (understood)


Chlorinate by putting trichlor tabs (never heard of these, where can I get them?)

Thanks for the help !

[PoolDoc]

Use muriatic acid to lower the pH, about 1/4 of a gallon poured into your pool per dose. (Pump on 24/7; wear gloves and glasses, don't breathe fumes; rinse bottle off in pool after recapping, rinse spill or splatters off promptly; purchase at hardware store)

As long as you've got both *some* chlorine and the polyquat, the pool is swimmable.

United Chemical Products tend to be unlike any other companies; most contain sodium bromide and/or ortho phosphates. Pool Stain Treat is, as I recall, oxalic acid and probably some phosphates. It's NOT the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Trichlor tabs are - I think - available almost everywhere in the country. Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart and Sams proabably all have them near you. They are 3" - 4" diameter round white tables used in skimmers, floaters or feeders and contain trichoro-isocyanuric acid, a form of chlorine and stabilizer combined together.

Ben

[aylad]

Trichlor tabs are - I think - available almost everywhere in the country. Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart and Sams proabably all have them near you. .



Be careful--all those places carry trichlor tabs, but the ones at most WalMarts are labeled "dual action", meaning they contain copper--which is a whole other ballgame when dealing with removing metals. You don't want to add copper to your pool, especially when you already have metal staining problems. Just check the ingredients on the trichlor pucks you buy, and make sure that copper is not listed as one of the ingredients.

Janet

[herb396]

Janet,
thanks and yes I noticed thta today thta they have asmall % of copper in them,,,can I just ues bleach to pump up the chlorine?

[aylad]

yes, in a 25K gallon pool, each 6 cups of 6% bleach will raise your chlorine by approximately 1 ppm.

Janet

[herb396]

So here's my update:
I added two quarts of muriatic acid last night, filter is on 24/7. As of this morning the pool went from crystal clear to now cloudy white (can't see the bottom). And my current readings are:

FAC: 0
TAC: 0
pH: 7.2
Alk: 110

In hind-sight prior after a full 24 hrs. of my initial 5 lbs. of the ascorbic acid, the over all stain was reduced by about 50%...meaning not as dark. I'm wondering if I should have just did another ascorbic acid treatment?

[Watermom]

You need to get some chlorine in there or its gonna be cloudy AND green!

[herb396]

I've added 182 oz of bleach over the last 24 hours but still showing 0 on my chlorine. I also put in some a little polyquat 60.

Right now I wanna get balanced and clear ,,,then I think I'll do another 5 lbs. of the ascorbic acid treatment.

What a tangled circle this all is.

[Watermom]

Please go back and re-read Ben's post above and follow his directions carefully. He knows what he is talking about and by following his advice to the letter, you'll have the best chance at getting this problem taken care of successfully.

Per Ben's directions above, you need to be chlorinating with trichlor pucks which will help the iron to fall out into your filter. If the ones you bought are the dual-action ones with copper, don't use them. Go and buy some plain trichlor pucks. (Bleach will add chlorine but will not cause the iron to fall out into your filter.)

Good luck and keep us posted how it is progressing.

[aylad]

The ascorbic acid and polyquat both eat chlorine, which is why you're having a tough time keeping a chlorine residual. When you asked about putting bleach into the pool to bump up chlorine, you can certainly do so, if you're trying to chlorinate the pool. However, one of the things Ben is trying to accomplish by having you put the trichlor puck into the skimmer is to create a high dose of chlorine that the water has to pass through on its way to the filter, which causes the metals to fall out and be trapped on the filter. Bleach won't work for this purpose, because the dose goes straight through the filter and back out to the pool.

Janet

[herb396]

Janet,,thanks for the insight (makes perfect sense). I pick up the correct trichlor pucks and I'll follow the rest of Bens direction.

I just became paranoid when the water turned so cloudy after the muriatic acid application...(was that suppose to happen?). (when might I expect it to clear up?)

[aylad]

I just became paranoid when the water turned so cloudy after the muriatic acid application...(was that suppose to happen?). (when might I expect it to clear up?)


It's understandable to panic when the water doesn something unexpected, but as long as you don't just start throwing chems "at" the pool trying to fix it, most everything can be fixed. Honestly, I don't know why the pool became so cloudy after the acid application, but I'm wondering if you don't have an algae bloom wanting to start--cloudy water is often the first sign.

As far as clearing it, keep the pump/filter running, cleaning the filter as your pressure indicates. Also persist in adding bleach (or the trichlor puck) until you have some chlorine registering in the water. If the cloudy/white is due to something precipitating out of the water, the filter should get it. If it's algae, you'll either keep it in check for awhile longer with the chlorine, or if not, then a bloom will be evident within a few days (although with polyquat and a residual chlorine level, that shouldn't happen. Have there been any times when the chlorine has been 0 for any length of time?).

Pooldoc should be back around the forum by tomorrow, and I'm sure will take a look at this thread. In the meantime, filter, filter, filter, get the trichlor puck into the skimmer, and continue to follow his advice in the other thread. Now is when a really big dose of POPP comes in handy (pool owner patience and persistence).

Janet

[herb396]

Janet,,thanks again. I began lowering my Chlorine beginning of last week and Thursday was the 1st day it was at zero. Saturday was when I did my first ascorbic acid treatment. I began adding bleach back yesterday. So it was at zero from say Wednesday evening to Saturday. Prior to all this the water had a very heavy dose of hTh algaecide (so much that you could still smell it in the water) (don't ask,,but that's a whole other story)....again the muriatic acid was added Saturday evening and it was cloudy early the next morning

I have a few questions from Ben's directions:

My current conditions as of noon today are:

Tot Chlorine .5
PH 7.1
Tot Alkalinity 130
Adj. Total Alk 122
Copper .2

And to date I have added: two quarts of muriatic acid on Saturday evening, and slowly added about 130 oz of bleach over a 24 hr prior.

1) when do I apply the Metal Free?,,,after a few days of holding these levels or now?
2) how soon after applying the Metal Free do I start using the trichlor pucks?

[aylad]

Go ahead and use the metal free--remember to deduct any metal sequestrant you may have already used from the doseage that Ben prescribed. After you add the metal free, then go ahead and start using the trichlor. The trichlor will provide chlorine for the pool, and will continue to drop your pH--so test for it before you add any more acid. If you are still using bleach, stop using it at this point because you're using the trichlor pucks for chlorination. Pouring bleach into a skimmer that has trichlor in it is a VERY bad and dangerous idea.

Janet

[herb396]

Thank you Janet

[herb396]

OK,,so Monday night I put in the Metal Free and dropped in a one of the new tabs into the skimmer,,pump is still running 24/7 and were brushing ,,alot.

Water is still cloudy white so it's hard to tell for sure,,but the stain does seem to be fadding.

Were backwashing once a day. Again hard to see for sure what's coming out with the water being so cloudy. (odd note here is that my pressure never seems to go up on the filter?)

Current readings as on noon yesterday:
Tot Chlorine = 0
Free Chlorine = 0
Ph = 7.2
Alkalinity = 130

I added another tap to the skimmer due to the flat 0 on the CL

[aylad]

Your pump pressure probably won't go up if you're backwashing daily--it never gets enough "stuff" in it to cause a rise.

Janet

[herb396]

Current readings /conditions as of 10:00 am today:

Tot Chlorine = .7
Free Chlorine = 0
PH = 7.4
Total Alkalinity = 190
Adjusted Alkalinity = 164

Water is still very cloudy/white (can not see bottom) even at shallow end.

Guees I'll add more muriatic acid to lower the pH

[PoolDoc]

Just to echo what Janet said -- don't backwash daily. That does NOT help things, when you have a sand filter. The way they work, the dirt become part of the filter, and big dirt pieces end up helping to filter little dirt pieces. But, if you backwash daily, that can never happen.

So, wait till you see a pressure rise before you backwash.

I'm not sure adding the muriatic acid had anything to do with the cloudiness. You've had really low chlorine . . . and I'm guessing the pool is still in use. If so, continued use with low chlorine will cause a build up of something that will cause a pool to go cloudy or even almost milky. If your pool has been used a lot, the cause may be the people goo, and not have anything to do with muriatic acid.

You need to keep your chlorine low BUT you need to add it often enough so that you ALWAYS have at least a little chlorine present. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALYWAYS . . . or else you've gotta stop using it.

And . . . you need to go back to lowering the pH.

Ben

[herb396]

Ben,
Understood,,I should be able to hold the CL now that I have the right pucks. Just finished adding a qt. of muriatic acid to lower pH..I will test again around 6:00 pm....thanks for the continued guidance.

[herb396]

Wednesday Night:

CL = 1
pH = 7.0

Water is still cloudy/milky,,little less than before. Can see thru to shallow end bottom, but not clearly. I'm still brushing, alot.

[PoolDoc]

Keep your chlorine up, above 0.5 and below 2.0. Go ahead and lower the pH another notch.

Don't backwash too much. Brush if you like, but unless you think you're getting algae (slick sides to the pool) I don't know that I'd bother yet, until you can see what you are doing. 1x per day should be fine.

Ben

[herb396]

This morning readings were the same.
CL = 1
pH = 7.0

Added another qt. of muriatic acid this morning. Water is still cloudy/milky, same as last night,,will take sampe to pool store for a more complete reading.

[PoolDoc]

Added another qt. of muriatic acid this morning. Water is still cloudy/milky, same as last night,,will take sampe to pool store for a more complete reading.

Unless you have reasons to think your test results are wrong, I wouldn't go to the store. They are just going to have you 'fix' stuff we've been working to get right. Your stabilizer wouldn't have changed much; your alkalinity is down some; your calcium wouldn't have changed much more than the stabilizer (both due to backwashing & replacing).

So unless you need something from them, I'd stay away!

Keep filtering (and not backwashing until the pressure goes up); keep not adding stuff unnecessarily; hold your pH just under 7.0; keep a little chlorine in; use the polyquat weekly or 2x weekly.

And . . . . be patient. Pool owner IMpatience is the #1 profit maker for sellers of unneeded pool chemicals: they can't fix you up faster, but they can sell you something that claims to do that! They don't have magic wands for pools; they just pretend they do.

Ben

[waterbear]

And . . . . be patient. Pool owner IMpatience is the #1 profit maker for sellers of unneeded pool chemicals: they can't fix you up faster, but they can sell you something that claims to do that! They don't have magic wands for pools; they just pretend they do.

Ben

Amen to that!

[herb396]

No I hear both you on that,,I'm not about to go back and start buying their 'snake oil'. I wanted take it there as a cross check to make use my little test kit is accurate. (there's a standing order in our home, "do not buy anything")

Now that were starting to make some progress,(the stain is fading to almost unnoticeable) (just still hard to tell fully with the water being so milky) We now have some renewed confidence so it's much easier to be patient .

Thanks for all the help...I'll keep posting as we progress.

[aylad]

Hang in there--the results will be worth it!! :)

Janet

[herb396]

Current conditions as noon today: We can now start to see thru the water, shallow area is pretty clear and I can see my Polaris down in the deep end (not clear but can tell what it is). :D The stains are lifting and I'd say about 90% gone. Residual markings remain around the worst areas, but the ring around the top is pretty much gone and the walls look pretty good. Keep in mind about 50% of these stains lifted after my initial 5lbs. ascorbic acid treatment.

My current readings are:
CYA: 70
Tot. CL : 1
Free CL: 0
pH: 7.4
Tot Alk: 145
Tot. Adj. Alk: 124
Tot. Hardness 250

Having a hard time keeping the pH down. I added another 2qt. of muriatic acid after receiving the test results. I'm keeping two full trichlor tabs in the skimmer to ad in the CL. No backwashing (pressure has gone up about 4-5 lbs)

But were making progress ! ;)

[Watermom]

Good to hear there is progress! Thanks for the update.

[herb396]

Ok as of 10:00 am this morning it looks like we are stain free. Some light areas that seem to go away with some brushing, so a good bruising all around will be today's task. Water is clearing up, can now see the drain in the deep end, but it's not crystal clear (yet).

CL is about 1.5 -(I say "about" because the little test kit w/drops & you match the colors. It matches the 1-2 mark) But I've been able to hold that level most of the week.

pH is about 7.0 - I added another two quarts of muriatic acid after taking that reading.

Been laying off the polyquat because prior to all this we doused the pool with about three bottles of the hTh algaecide (thinking the stain might have been algae). The water still has an odor to it and it foams up a bit when splashed around.

So what's my next move? Do I start thinking about bringing my levels back up & chlorinating using calcium hypochlorite granular chlorine? Or should I hold these levels for a while longer?

herb

[aylad]

Definitely don't add any more of the HTH algaecide--the chlorine you use will eventually break down whatever's causing the smell and the foaming. Remember that algaecides are much better at preventing an algae outbreak than they are at killing an active one--and even then you only want to use Polyquat 60 because of the same problems that you mentioned.

I'll let one of the stain experts advise you on whether it's time to start raising your levels again, but I just wanted to warn you that when you do, do it slowly so that if you start to see browning of your water you can get some sequestrant in there before you end up with staining again. High chlorine and high pH levels are what bring the metals out of solution, so just have that in mind when you start raising your levels.

Janet

[herb396]

Holding the current levels for the past few days:
CL: 1.5
pH - 6.8

Water is gradually clearing up, not milky, just cloudy at this point, but I can see the bottom of the deep end pretty well. Satin in mostly gone, there is a light band about 8" wide just below the water line on about half the pool, but the walls and bottom are clear. No change in stain lift for the past two days now, so I would guess it's probably as far as it going to go.

So my question lies in when do I begin to start thinking about bringing my levels back up & chlorinating using calcium hypochlorite granular chlorine.

thanks,
herb

[aylad]

I don't think I'd use cal-hypo at all--your hardness is already at 250, and it won't be long before the excess calcium will cloud up your water. I'd go with straight bleach or liquid chlorine. I don't see any reason why you can't start bringing up your chlorine levels now, just do it slowly keeping an eye out for water color changes.

Janet

[herb396]

Janet,
I mentioned the chlorinating using calcium hypochlorite granular chlorine because it was what Ben's initial directions gave me when giving he help develop a plan to address the stain.

But if the calcium is going to be an issue,,,then obviously I just want to do the right thing.

[aylad]

I just went back and re-read the whole thread and realized that you have a plaster pool, not a vinyl one. In that case, cal-hypo is fine, because your target CH in a plaster pool should be 200-400 anyway. My mistake, sorry!! :o

In a plaster pool, calcium is a much bigger issue if it's low than if it's high, because if the water doesn't contain enough calcium, it will leach it from the plaster, making it brittle.

So you're right, Ben's right (of course), and I'll slink out of this now..... ;)

Janet

[waterbear]

Janet,
I mentioned the chlorinating using calcium hypochlorite granular chlorine because it was what Ben's initial directions gave me when giving he help develop a plan to address the stain.

But if the calcium is going to be an issue,,,then obviously I just want to do the right thing.

I would follow Ben's directions. In fact, in this newsletter he talks about shocking with cal hypo in the skimmer
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10246
and he gives much fuller directiosn here:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10217
He suggests that by using cal hypo this way excess calcium precipitates out in the filter and acts as a 'filter aid'. Worth trying but do keep tabs on your
CH and if it climbs beyond reasonable levels switch back to bleach.

[aylad]

Evan, you must not have read my post just above yours!! :)

Janet

[waterbear]

Evan, you must not have read my post just above yours!! :)

Janet

It wasn't there when I started posting! We must have been posting at the same time. You just finished first because I was looking for Ben's threads with the cal hypo info. :)

[herb396]

I could not read the post, when trying I get a message "you do not have permission to access this page"...(looks like it would be good info) Anyway, I'll proceed by following Ben's direction, thanks for getting me back on track.

Thank you all for the guidance, can't tell you how valuable it has been for us.
BTW - we don't hate or pool anymore,,,,thank you!

herb

[waterbear]

I could not read the post, when trying I get a message "you do not have permission to access this page"...(looks like it would be good info) Anyway, I'll proceed by following Ben's direction, thanks for getting me back on track.

Thank you all for the guidance, can't tell you how valuable it has been for us.
BTW - we don't hate or pool anymore,,,,thank you!

herb
If I am not mistaken, upgrading your membership subscription to Supporter will allow you acccess to those sections AND help keep this forum going. I believe it has already proved it's value to you! ;) The Upgrade is well worth it!
:)

[Watermom]

Waterbear is correct. Upgrading to supporter will let you read those private sections of the forum with the Pool Letters in them. Full of good information.

Also, it is helpful to put all your pool specs in a signature line so that as we try and help, we can quickly see what your pool set up is without having to re-read long threads.

[herb396]

We are fully stain free and the water it pretty clear now, I'd say about 95% clear. (thank you all!)

I've stpped using the pucks for a full day and began adding (to the skimmer) about a cup of calcium hypochlorite granular chlorine per day for the past three days. I've also added about a gal. of bleach over the course of the last two days.

My current readings are: (as done by the pool store)

Tot Chlorine = .3
Free Chlorine = 0
CYA = 100 (two days ago this only read 70)
PH = 7.2
Tot. Alkalinity = 115
Adj. Total Alk = 85

So what should I be using and how much
Again it's a 25K gal painted/gunite in-ground pool

thanks,
herb

[PoolDoc]

You should start GRADUALLY raising your chlorine level using cal hypo* added to the skimmer, to the 5 - 10 ppm range, while watching to see if stains reappear.

Meanwhile, continue to use polyquat regularly. Until your chlorine level is over 5 ppm, it won't be safe to depend on chlorine alone to keep your pool algae free.

PoolDoc

*All previous cautions about the dangers of doing this still apply. This is safe ONLY if you 'follow the rules'!

[herb396]

OK,,Things have been going great, the water is very close to being perfectly clear. I have been trying to gradually raise my CL level. I started last Thursday adding 1 cup every 12 hrs of cal hypo. I test every time prior to adding. First three days basically no change in the levels. (but I've stayed safe by adding the polyquat). Then bumped up the dosage by going 1-1/2 cup each time again every 12 hrs, level rose to .5. Yesterday I began to add 2 full scoops 3 x a day. last night my reading was still .5

In the morning I backwashed and then added 3 scoops. (It was 95 degrees here all week including today) I just tested and my CL level is now 10 ! , and the water is also a bit cloudy. I really tried to avoid this sudden rise. I might just be paranoid I think the steps are getting darker.

Should I add something to quickly lower the CL?

I wonder if there is something going on with the filter that would have released a bunch of cal hypo after backwashing?

[PoolDoc]

What is your stabilizer level?

If it's low, and you've been testing in the PM, but tested in the AM this time, you would expect results like that.

Full intense sun with clear water and low CYA can strip chlorine VERY rapidly.

Ben