I know NOTHING! Where do I start?

[lbmoore]

Hubby bought kiddo a 15'x48" Intex vinyl pool (4400 gallons) and set it up Sunday. The pump is a 1,000 gph filter pump.

We've added no chemicals yet. The filter/pump is running.

The test kit I have is Aqua Chem 6 way Test Strips. I know it's not the best, but that was all they had in my rural area.

Tonight I took a test and the results were:

Hardness 100 ppm
Total Chlorine 0
Free Chlorine (Bromine) 0
Ph 7.2
Alkalinity 120-180 ppm ? somewhere in between
Stabalizer 50 ppm

What I have on hand for chemicals is:
1) hth Super Shock & Swim #3
1) hth dual action 3" chlorinating tablet

Brand new box of 20 Mule Team Borax
1 gallon of 6% Walmart generic bleach
12lb bag of Arm & Hammer Baking Soda
1 gallon of Klean Strip Safer Muriatic Acid (I can't imagine putting this in a pool!???)

From what I've read and understand (after finally getting registered and paying to post) is that my Ph is a little low and I need chlorine.

I just want to add things in the proper amount and order so hopefully we won't have problems.

Also, when you add these things, how long do you have to wait until it's ok to swim? I have a 12 year old and I will need to know.

Thanks in advance for all your help and expertise!

[CarlD]

Hi and welcome! For a first-timer you've done GREAT and avoided MOST of the pit-falls, and not caused ANY damage with the few you've hit. With help, you'll stay right on track

1) I'd start by adding 1/2 of that gallon of bleach immediately...right now. It should raise your FC to about 7ppm, which is OK for now--more below on CYA.

2) Then take a water sample to a pool store and see if their numbers are similar to yours.

3) THROW or give those "double-acting" tablets AWAY! NEVER use them! They contain copper as the "extra ingredient" and copper will give you nothing but trouble. They are GARBAGE and, IMHO, I think HTH is highly irresponsible in marketing them.

4) Is the "Super Shock" Cal-Hypo or Di-Chlor? If it's Cal-Hypo you might be able to use it--but only if your Calcium Hardness level is low (You didn't report that #--for vinyl we don't care about CH, unless it's high).

But if it's Di-Chlor, you cannot use it now--save it for when your CYA is low and your pH is elevated.

Meanwhile, plan on using Bleach or Liquid Chlorine. 1 gallon of 6% bleach adds EXACTLY 6ppm of FC to 10,000 gallons of water. Since you have 4,400, just under half that, 1/2 gallon of bleach should do the same--maybe a tad more. If you use 5.25% bleach, it adds 5.25ppm per 10,000 gallons, etc.

5) If the CYA number is correct then you will need to keep your daily FC between 3 and 6 and shock it to 15 whenever there's a hint of a problem--the level of "7" I suggested above is fine for now--as long as the water is still clear.

6) If the CYA is lower, you are still fine at that level.

7) If you see any signs of algae--bits of green on the bottom or greenish water, immediately add bleach to get FC to 10 to 12 ppm if your CYA is actually below 30, and raise FC to 15 if CYA is between 30 and 50.

8) The pool store WILL try to sell your calcium to raise your calcium level. Resist. Calcium is useless in vinyl pools but they push it anyway. They may also push phosphate removers and use scare tactics to get you to buy them. Resist. Phosphate levels are, in most pools, highly irrelevant. "Oh, your phosphate level is 500ppb! you need remover!" Nope. You can have SIX TIMES that level without a problem.

9) You CAN buy only one algaecide: PolyQuat 60%. It will say as it's ONLY active ingredient "Poly....<something long and unpronounceable>.... 60%" That's that stuff. Anything else? NEVER buy it! It doesn't matter what the PolyQuat 60% is called. Sometimes it's "Black Algaecide", sometimes "Mustard Algae Treatment", whatever. As long as it's only ingredient is Poly .... 60% that's the stuff--it's usually a lot more expensive--about $20/bottle, but you only use about 1/2 to one ounce at a time, and only as a preventative.

10) Order a proper test kit on-Line from Taylor Technologies, Amatoind dot com, or Leslies on-line. From the first two get the Taylor K-2006 or K-2006C kit. From Leslies get the FAS-DPD Chlorine Service Pack Test Kit--it's their version of the K-2006. Do not get the K-2005 or a "DPD" test kit--it must have the FAS-DPD test. Expect it to cost between $50 and $70 and it's worth its weight in gold or platinum! Then you'll always be able to get better test numbers than the pool store.

Have fun with the Intex! I had a 15' for 3 years and we enjoyed it very much. I learned enough about pool care to feel confident to go to the 40'x16' I have now. I even got my first FAS-DPD kit while I had the Intex...still have it somewhere!

Carl

[lbmoore]

Carl Thank you for your reply. Last night I kept reading and with your advice to someone else earlier I went out at midnight and dumped 1/2 gallon of bleach in. The pump has been running all night.

I just retested and these are the results:

Total Hardness is up from 100 to almost 250
Total Chlorine is up from 0 to 1
Free Chlorine is up from 0 to almost 3
Ph is up from 7.2 to 7.8-8.4
Total Alkalinity still at 120
Stabilizer is up from 50 to not quite 100

Why would the Ph and stabilizer have changed? Is it because I added the bleach?
Or is it because I'm viewing the strip in totally different light this am? :) With us living in a rural area, I figured the water was very hard.

Our water is still crystal clear with no signs of problems. Should I add another 1/2 gallon of bleach?

Being rural, I will have to check in to finding a pool store to test water and a different test kit.

[CarlD]

OK. Do you have an OTO test kit that tests just chlorine and pH? If not, get one. They are cheap--$5-$10, or if there's a Walmart, get the HTH 5-way drop test kit--for $12 to $15 it's a bargain!

Your change is too drastic--that's why we don't recommend strips--it's too easy to make BIG mistakes with them.

Until then I'm not convinced everything changed so much. The ONLY thing you can safely do is add more bleach. But bleach won't change your pH, your CYA, or your CH levels. (actually it CAN change pH but you aren't anywhere close to where that can happen, so don't worry about it).

[aylad]

Carl's given you excellent advice, as usual--I just wanted to reiterate that having your own drop-based kit is a necessity--even if it's the 6-way from WalMart. You've now seen first hand why we don't like strips.

Welcome to the forum!!

Janet

[Watermom]

Unless I missed something, I don't understand how you can have a cya (stablizer) reading at all. You said in the first post that you hadn't added any chemicals yet you report a cya reading of 50. That isn't possible. CYA is something that has to be added either directly or through a stabilized form of chlorine such as trichlor pucks or dichlor powder. It is not in your water supply.

Also, another option for buying the Taylor K-2006 we recommend is to order it from Amazon. com through this link so that PF gets a donation in the process. More info in the following thread:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006

[lbmoore]

Thanks for such a quick reply Carl. Just as I suspected. I found a store that does water testing on the way to hubby's work. He will be getting the results in a bit. I forewarned him they were going to try to sell him unneeded products. lol He's tough, so I have confidence in him not to buy their "stuff". lol

I'll post results when I get them, and try to find me a better testing kit.

Your help is sooo appreciated!

[lbmoore]

Watermom: As far as the stabilizer readings-There was no chemicals in the pool when I took the first strip test. There was no mistaking that reading. The strip was a burnt orange.

After adding 1/2 gallon of bleach last night at midnight, then retested at 7am today, that burnt orange color turned to a very deep orange.

I thought I read last night on here that there shouldnt be a reading for stabilizer when just filling a pool and no chemicals had been added, but couldnt find the post again.

We'll see what the pool store readings are and I'll get me a different kit.... unless there is something in our rural water?????? eeeek! lol

[Watermom]

There isn't any cya in water supplies of any type. Your cya reading is 0.

BTW -- Welcome to the forum. Glad you found us!

[CarlD]

So...if your REAL pH is fairly high, and the powdered stuff is Di-Chlor, we may have you add that. If it's Cal-Hypo, then no (until we get a CH value we can rely on).

For now stick with bleach.

[lbmoore]

And the results are in from the pool supply store. Amazingly enough, hubby said the woman was very nice and didnt try to sell him anything really. Just told him we might think about adding some stabilizer. :)

Hardness 225
Total Chlorine 3.9
Free Chlorine 3.9
Ph 7.9
Total Alkalinity 98
CYA (stabilizer?) 17

[aylad]

I agree with Watermom--if you haven't added any stabilizer to the water, then there is none in the water. If you've added the shock and swim though, that may be where it came from. Do yourself a favor and get a drop-based kit so that you know you have accurate numbers.

Anyway, from looking at what you have posted here, there are no reasons why you can't swim, if the water is clear....the hardness is high, so you want to avoid using cal-hypo as a chlorinating source, because high calcium in a vinyl pool can lead to milky water. Your pH is high and your stabilizer could stand to come up, so using the dichlor that you have is an okay option for now--but not until you have a way to accurately measure pH. Dichlor will raise stabilizer levels and lower pH, so you need to be testing as you use it to make sure that your pH stays above 7.0 and that your stabilizer (you're right, same as CYA) stays under 40 ppm or so.

Your alk is fine where it is. Just be aware that, as your stabilizer rises, so will the amount of chlorine you need to keep in the pool to keep it clean. See the sticky thread called "Best Guess Table" in the chlorine forum.

Janet

[CarlD]

I think you said you had HTH Super Shock and Swim #3.

If so, that's Cal-Hypo and with your calcium level you shouldn't use it. If it was Di-Chlor it would be, in this situation, a good choice. So would Tri-chlor pucks but not those "double-acting" ones laden with copper.

So you'll need to get some CYA/Stabilizer powder. You can use the Muriatic acid to lower your pH for now. I'd start with 1/4 to 1/2 cup--no more. Mix it into a 5 gallon bucket of pool water first, then add it. Safer that way.

[lbmoore]

Nope, we havnt added anything other than the Walmart brand (6%) bleach, 1/2 gallon last night and then the other half this am.

I don't know why both the pool supply company that tested our water and the test strips I have are showing cya.

The hth super shock n swim is a 1 lb bag. The active ingredient listed is calcium hypochlorite 52.0%
Other ingredients 48%

Since we have not used any of the hth products that were bought, I would rather just return them.

If I need to buy a stabilizer, I will. Then I have borax, baking soda, muriatic acid and of course bleach on hand.

[aylad]

Since the shock and swim is cal-hypo, then you'd be better off returning it and getting a small container of stabilizer (also labeled conditioner, balancer, etc...but the active ingredient is cyanuric or isocyanuric acid). Somewhere in my mind I thought you said it was dichlor--must have confused you with another poster. Sorry! :rolleyes:

Janet

[CarlD]

No, that was me ASKING if it was Cal-Hypo or Di-Chlor, and what could be done if it was Di-Chlor. Easy mistake to make.

[lbmoore]

Thank you everyone for your input. I have to go into the city tomorrow and will get some stabilizer and a better test kit.

It was close to 90 today (pool is in full sun all day) and by tonight @ 9:30pm we are back to zero on the chlorine due to no stabilizer, am I right about that? (I hope I'm learning :) )

Is there any certain stabilizer that should or should not be used?

[Watermom]

It is sometimes labeled as stabilizer or maybe conditioner. Check the label. If it says cyanuric or isocyanuric acid, that is the right stuff.

If you buy a kit, make sure you get something that has a FAS-DPD test in it. If they don't have something like a Taylor K-2006, consider order it through Amazon.com at this link because by doing so, the Pool Forum will get a donation. Take a look at this link:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006

[lbmoore]

Good Morning!

Here's my update:
Intex 15'x48" 4400 gallons

Bought stabilizer. According to pool store's analysis our cya was 17. So hubby added 8oz to raise 10ppm through skimmer. (Wish I had seen the sock method before hand) We decided to start here, but really not sure if that will be enough due to pool being in full sun 12-13 hours a day and temps here are around 90 everyday.

Ph continues to be 7.6 according to our new "dunk" test kit.

Chlorine continues to dissolve/evaporate. I add 1/2 gallon bleach in am and another in pm.

Here's my questions to be sure I understand right.

I will need to continue to add the bleach twice a day until stabilizer dissolves, correct?

How long will it take stabilizer to dissolve and how will I know? (by my chlorine levels starting to stay up?)

The new "dunk" kit we bought only has enough to do cya test twice. So my thoughts were to use these stress strips, I mean test strips (:D) to monitor a CHANGE in cya, once there is a change I would say the cya has dissolved and we can use the "dunk" test or take another sample to pool store to get actual cya numbers.

Once the cya dissolves how often do you typically have to add chlorine in hot humid weather to maintain?

How often do you recommend checking the ph and cya? The bottle of cya says to test cya once a week. I've not found anything regarding the ph.

I think thats all the newbie questions I have for now.

I want to thank watermom, Carl, aylad and everyone else who has taken the time to help us. It's greatly appreciated.

[aylad]

Looks like you're on the right track. The stabilizer typically takes up to 4-5 days to dissolve and show up on testing, so I wouldn't bother to retest for it for at least 4 days. I don't remember what kind of filter you have (sand? cartridge?) but remember that the CYA that you put into the skimmer is now sitting on your filter while it dissolves. That means that if you backwash (sand) or rinse off (cartridge) you're going to rinse out the CYA you've added and you'll have to add more. So...try not to clean your filter for the next 4 days, if you can help it. If you have to, go ahead, and just add more CYA, and wait 4-5 additional days to retest for it. You are correct in that you're going to have to add chlorine at least twice a day to keep a residual in the pool, at least until your stabilizer dissolves. Once the stabilizer dissolves, you can cut that back to daily or maybe every other day because the stabilizer will protect the chlorine from the sun. Once you get your CYA up to the 30-40 ppm range, then you can fine-tune it from there. Most people keep theirs around 40-ish and it works well for them. I live in Louisiana, where it is hot and humid every day (the heat index today is 112) and my pool is in full sun all day long. I find that if I keep my CYA low, then I still can't keep chlorine in the pool even with daily additions, but I keep mine around 80-90 ppm and can add chlorine every other day. The downside to the higher CYA, though, is that I have to maintain higher base levels (Cl at 5-10 all the time, and shocking requires 20 ppm) for the same sanitation as lower chlorine levels in lower CYA pools. The difference is how fast the chlorine gets eaten up. The other problem with high CYA that many people find is that over the winter, if the pool isn't kept chlorinated, the CYA tends to be broken down by bacteria, creating a by-product of ammonia, that causes an EXTREME chlorine demand to overcome upon opening. I don't have to deal with that in my pool because my pool stays open and chlorinated all year.

So...once you get the stabilizer in the water, then it will only take a week or so of daily testing for you to get an idea of how fast the chlorine is used up, then you can make a decision on whether to raise your CYA or not then.

Regarding testing for pH, I usually check mine weekly, although mine hardly ever fluctuates more than 0.4. If yours isn't as stable, then you might want to check it daily for a week or so until you get a feel for where your pool "likes" to be. For CYA, once you get the level where you want it, then you really don't need to test more than 2-3 times per season to make sure you're maintaining it, since the only way it will lower is by splashout/refill. You can order refills for the CYA reagent--it's the same as the Taylor reagent, and can be reordered in larger quantities. I get mine at http://www.spspools-spas.com/, but have also gotten it from the Taylor Technologies website, as well. Might also check http://www.amatoind.com/.

Hope this helps!

Janet

[Watermom]

ibmoore
I moved your posts made on 6/25/11 into a new thread called ibmoore 2011 Intex with algae. You can find it here:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?12521-ibmoore-2011-Intex-with-algae

I am going to close this thread and we'll help you in the new thread instead.