Newbie - Green Pool

[ponytailhair]

Hi there. I've been reading, and reading, and reading the forum questions and answers and feel like I'm in waaay over my head. So, let me apologize for asking the same questions that have already been asked and answered numerous times. But hey, I guess that's what a forum is all about.

We have an inground, 21,000 gal. pool with a sand filter and vinyl liner.

We've been battling keeping chlorine in the pool all season (opened mid-May). Last week, the clear water went cloudy. We took a water sample to the pool company, and they asked when the last time our sand in the filter had been changed. We didn't know, so we scheduled them to come out and change the sand. They told us we had "trace amounts" of phosphates, and that they were eating up all the chlorine. Our pH was also low, so they told us to add 20 lbs of baking soda. They also said to add a couple pounds of shock to the pool, and that they would be out on Thursday, the 1st to change the sand. They said to just add enough chlorine to the pool to keep it from going green, and that changing the sand would fix the problem of our chlorine being hard to keep up.

Sunday evening, the water started getting darker. Monday it was green. We added 4 lbs of shock Monday night. This morning, it looks even darker green. We can't see the bottom of the deep end now. I took in a water sample and here were the readings:

TDS: 500
CYA: 86
Total Chlorine: 1.5
Free Chlorine: .4
pH: 7.3
Total Alkalinity: 217
Adj. Total Alk: 191
Total Hardness: 190
Copper: 0
Iron: 0
Manganese: No

After reading some of the posts, I'm inclined to add more shock tonight to try and get the water clearer. However, I'm concerned to do that, because the pool people said it was just wasting chemicals until after the sand is changed.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. If you need further information, please let me know. Thanks!!

[peekaboo]

Hello and Welcome to the forum!Wipe your feet at the door and stay a while.
Let me help as much as I can.

1.I have NEVER,EVER heard of sand eating chlorine......EVER,EVER.
2.Don't buy OR add anything else from a poolstore...load up on Liquid chlorine or bleach
3.Get a GOOD test kit....Taylor k2006 or 2006c are favs here(actually should have been point 1 on list!)
4.With CYA of 86 you must shock pool to 20ppm and KEEP IT THERE by testing pool 3 times a day and adding chlorine as needed to maintain 20ppm.You must add about 7 gallons of 6% bleach AT ONE TIME to pool to get to 20 ppm for your size pool.
5.Run filter 24/7 til it clears up...it will turn a blueish haze as it kills the algae
6.With CYA of 86 you MUST maintain Free Chlorine between 5-10 ppm AT ALL TIMES after that or risk algae

Alkalinity is high,you'll want to knock that down(dont know exactly what number as I am actually sleeping while typing this,somebody will be here to help soon though)


The problem is you are not maintaining a high enough chlorine residual for your cya.They are connected .That's were the algae comes into play.Do NOT add a stabilized chlorine(pucks..either tri chlor or di chlor) as this will add MORE cya to the water!
Check out the pool calculator in the forum it is a magnificent tool.Read the BBB stickies in forum also to better aquaint yourself.

[Watermom]

Call the pool people and tell them NOT to come!! You do NOT need to change your sand. As Peekaboo said above, get the cl up to 20 and try and hold it there. The more times per day that you can test and hit it with bleach again, the faster this will clear. In your pool, each gallon of 6% bleach will raise the cl by 3ppm. Everytime you test, add however much bleach you need to get back to 20. When you get to the point where you can go from sundown to sunup without losing more than 1ppm of cl, then you can let your cl drift back down to between 5-10. NEVER let it go below 5 or you'll have algae again, though.

Take care of the algae problem first and then we can help you with the high alk problem.

You need a good kit. Take a look at this thread for more info on getting a Taylor K-2006. You need it and it will make taking care of your pool so much easier.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006


BTW -- Welcome to the forum. Glad you found us!

[CarlD]

Oh, Pony! I sure hope you listened to Watermom and canceled those guys because you have been "pool stored"! (We all have--that's why we are here)

I would NEVER add 20 lbs of baking soda to ANY pool! It caused your total alkalinity to shoot up to 190--which is luckily OK because you have a vinyl pool (it would have added to your problems if you had concrete or plaster). However, it is NOT the best way to raise pH (which, at 7.3 is FINE, especially since you are fighting algae).

Sand lasts forever unless you gunk it up--and about the only way to do that with a chlorine-sanitized pool is add all the junk pool stores gleefully sell you that doesn't work when you have algae!

'Mom has you on the right track. She's giving you simple, unambiguous instructions of things to do RIGHT NOW. They WILL work, and work well.

Later on, we can address WHY 'Mom says never let your chlorine go below 5ppm.

But for now it's the old "alligators in the swamp" situation!

[ponytailhair]

Thanks for your help everyone. Quick and/or dumb question for you. It looks like the Taylor K-2006 only tests chlorine up to 5.0 ppm. How do I know if I've got the level up to the recommended 20 ppm?

[Watermom]

The Taylor K-2006 is a complete FAS-DPD kit which will let you go much higher than 5.

http://www.taylortechnologies.com/product_fliers/FAS_DPDDropTest.pdf

[CarlD]

The K-2006 actually includes TWO chlorine tests: The FAS-DPD drop test we all recommend, and a simpler OTO test that uses a standard Taylor OTO/pH cell. The OTO side only goes to 5ppm for Chlorine but the FAS-DPD test doesn't use the cell at all and measures FC up to 50ppm.

I think that's the source of your very understandable confusion.

We are all going to have to remember that for the future! It's so automatic to all of us we don't even think about it anymore.

[waterbear]

Thanks for your help everyone. Quick and/or dumb question for you. It looks like the Taylor K-2006 only tests chlorine up to 5.0 ppm. How do I know if I've got the level up to the recommended 20 ppm?

I think you are confusing the K-2006 with the K-2005 since the K-2006 does not use a comaparator but is a drop counting test.
The k-2005 is the testkit that is usually carried in stores since it is a bit less expensive (the kits are identical except for the chlorine tests.
The chlorine test in the K-2006 is far superior and easier to use so this is the kit you want. In most areas of the country it is not stocked so you will most likely have to order it online.

[waterbear]

The K-2006 actually includes TWO chlorine tests: The FAS-DPD drop test we all recommend, and a simpler OTO test that uses a standard Taylor OTO/pH cell. The OTO side only goes to 5ppm for Chlorine but the FAS-DPD test doesn't use the cell at all and measures FC up to 50ppm.

I think that's the source of your very understandable confusion.

We are all going to have to remember that for the future! It's so automatic to all of us we don't even think about it anymore.

You are confusing the K-2006 with the kit that Ben used to sell. The K-2006 does not include the OTO/pH small comparator (which is actually the Taylor K-1000 OTO/pH kit) and uses the large pH comparator with acid and base demand tests.

[CarlD]

You are confusing the K-2006 with the kit that Ben used to sell. The K-2006 does not include the OTO/pH small comparator (which is actually the Taylor K-1000 OTO/pH kit) and uses the large pH comparator with acid and base demand tests.

Hmmm....Looks like you are right AND I am wrong (What? Did the planets allign or something??? :confused: )

So the question goes back to Ponytailhair: Why did you think that the K-2006 only goes to 5ppm for Chlorine?

[ponytailhair]

To answer CarlD, I googled Taylor K-2006, and the one I looked at had this summary: "A complete DPD test kit designed for service people, commercial pool operators and health dept officials interested in economy & portability. Tests for Free & Total Chlorine (.5 - 5.0 ppm) Bromine (1.0 - 10 ppm), pH (6.8-8.2), Acid Demand, Base Demand, Calcium Hardness, Total Alkalinity and Cyanuric Acid. Uses 3/4 oz reagents.Plus Titrants to improve accuracy."

I do not want to break any rules about advertising, especially since I don't even know this company, so I will not say which google result I got this information from.

This is all like a foreign language to me, so thanks for your patience and help!

[sturev]

Ponytailhair, what does the number say on the sticker on the top left corner on your kit?

I ordered a K-2006C kit from Amazon (sold/shipped by In the Swim), and it was really the K-2005C... It was mislabled on Amazon (and I'm sad to report it still is!!! :eek: even after I spent the time to explain it to them and they had to deal with my return/credit as they don't stock the K-2006 or the K-2006C).

[sturev]

I think I misunderstood your post... I read it like you had the kit and were asking a question about it's use... It appears that you don't own one yet?

[ponytailhair]

No, sturev, I don't have one yet. But that's a good tip about NOT buying one on Amazon! Thanks.

[CarlD]

To answer CarlD, I googled Taylor K-2006, and the one I looked at had this summary: "A complete DPD test kit designed for service people, commercial pool operators and health dept officials interested in economy & portability. Tests for
Free & Total Chlorine (.5 - 5.0 ppm) This is the DPD test, not the FAS-DPD TEST
Bromine (1.0 - 10 ppm) Unless you use bromine instead of chlorine, this is not relevant.,
pH (6.8-8.2) This tests how acid or alkaline your water is.
Acid Demand, Base Demand Ignore these two. They sound more important than they are,
Calcium Hardness Measures calcium and is only important in concrete/plaster pools or when it goes too high in vinyl pool. I measure this once or twice a season since my pool is vinyl,
Total Alkalinity Loosely, this measure how resistant pH is to change so it doesn't bounce around. It's more than that but that's enough to know for now.
and Cyanuric Acid Stabilizer: A two edged-sword. You need it to keep chlorine from being destroyed by UV rays. Too little is a problem but too much is a bigger problem.

Uses 3/4 oz reagents.Plus Titrants to improve accuracy."

I do not want to break any rules about advertising, especially since I don't even know this company, so I will not say which google result I got this information from.

This is all like a foreign language to me, so thanks for your patience and help!

Thanks for being concerned but even if you had listed the vendor you would have not been in violation--especially since you are CRITICIZING that vendor.

Now that sounds exactly like the description of the K-2005 kit. The clue is the K-2006 tests Free Chlorine and Combined Chloramines. You calculate Total Chlorine by adding FC and CC together. The 2005 kit calculates Free Chlorine and Total Chlorine and, instead, you calculate Combined Chloramine by subtracting FC from TC.

[waterbear]

If you are shopping on Amazon then this thread has a link to the proper kit, the K-2006.
Also, if you purchase the kit through this link you will help support the forum and keep it going.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006

[PoolDoc]

Hey folks,

I've got links to Amazon that ARE for the K2006 -- different Amazon associate. The photo is DEFINITELY an K2006 and it's listed as an "FAS-DPD" kit, so I would assume that's what they are delivering.

And, if you purchase that way, the Pool Forum gets 8%!

Here's the post:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=10006

PoolDoc