Danville's Pool

[danville]

What a wonderful forum! I am a new reader and am so impressed.

I have the same issue with a high CYA, chlorine at 0, and ph at 7.8 and just have a couple additional questions:

1) I can't afford to drain my pool right now to get the CYA down so is there a temporary fix for the summer that will make the pool swimmable? What is the downside to frequently adding a lot of bleach to get the chlorine up temporarily?

2) are there any real health dangers to swimming with high CYA and a ph of 7.8 or is it just more of a risk for algae?

3) what are the biggest risks of draining the pool myself if i decide to go that route?

4) just for kicks - how dangerous is it to swim with chlorine at 0? if no one uses the pool but me is this a health issue?

[PoolDoc]

1) I can't afford to drain my pool right now to get the CYA down so is there a temporary fix for the summer that will make the pool swimmable? What is the downside to frequently adding a lot of bleach to get the chlorine up temporarily?

None, really. You just have to run really high levels of chlorine to compensate. It won't even be expensive, because you won't lose much chlorine to sunlight. You will have to figure out how much CYA you do have, so you can figure out appropriate chlorine levels.

2) are there any real health dangers to swimming with high CYA and a ph of 7.8 or is it just more of a risk for algae?

As long as your chlorine is high enough, you're fine.


3) what are the biggest risks of draining the pool myself if i decide to go that route?

The biggest risk? Destroying your pool or liner. Don't do it without providing more info about your pool and where it's located (low wet area or high and dry -- vinyl or concrete -- etc.)

4) just for kicks - how dangerous is it to swim with chlorine at 0? if no one uses the pool but me is this a health issue?

Depends on what's been growing in there. Best case, you risk ear and skin infections. Worst case, rarely some really bad stuff can grow in pools.

PoolDoc

[CarlD]

The easiest way to do the dilution is what we jokingly call the "CarlD Patented Shot Glass method"! But it works!

1) Get a gallon of Steam Distilled water--your supermarket or discount drug chain has it.

2) Get a shot glass (a CLEAN one--if you intend to imbibe, do THAT from a different glass, please! :rolleyes:)

3) Get something like a Pyrex measuring cup.

4) Add one shot glass of pool water and one shot glass of distilled water.

5) Stir

6) Test THIS in your test block and double the numbers--so if it reads "5" it's really 10ppm.

7) If that's not high enough (and it won't be since you are aiming for 20ppm) you'll add 3 shots of distilled water to your 1 shot of pool water. Then, if your test block reads "5", you'll quadruple it to measure "20"ppm!

Simple!

(Note: The more times you dilute the pool water the less accurate this method becomes. Ultimately, you should get a FAS-DPD Chlorine test kit, like the Taylor K-2006. But, for now, in your emergency situation, dilution is FINE!)

[Watermom]

One question -- how do we know we're aiming for a chlorine level of 20? Unless I missed it, the poster (danville) didn't tell us what his cya level was.

Danville --- we need that cya level to better advise you. BTW -- Welcome to the forum! Glad you found us?

[CarlD]

Hi Lisa,

Go back a few posts. He reported it as 80-90. You have to hunt a little for it.

Carl

[Watermom]

That was a different poster. Danville (post # 17 in this thread) was posting for the very first time. We've got a couple different pools being discussed in this thread.

REMINDER -- This is why we say it is best to start your own thread instead of tacking onto the end of somebody elses. It gets confusing to try and help with more than one pool at a time. This is exactly what happened in this thread.

I'm gonna start a thread for Danville and move his posts and our replies there. Danville please continue in the new thread.

EDIT -- Carl: It is obviously no longer post #17 in this thread. I moved Danville's post and our replies here into a separate thread.

[Watermom]

Moved your post and the subsequent replies into your own thread to avoid confusion with having it in the middle of somebody else's thread.

[CarlD]

Oh boy...:( I'll bet his CYA is 1346.3 ppm!:eek::eek:

[danville]

Thanks for your help everyone.

Here are my stats:
- Pool is in ground in California in a very hot, dry climate. It is plastered (if that is the right term for the pool floor, if not please correct me).
- Very little visible algae growing. 3-4 dime size patches of reddish algae on the stairs.
- Water looks clear to me although the pool servicer told me it looked slightly cloudy to him. I am new to owning a pool so maybe I can't see the cloudiness yet.
- CYA level: 150
- Chlorine: 0
- ph: 7.8
- TA: 160

A pool servicer told me I had to drain it and power wash the walls or it would be green within 2 weeks. I had him add a bunch of liquid chlorine and 2 weeks have gone by and it looks fine. Chlorine is at 0 again of course but his prediction that algae would grow rampant hasn't come true. So I am hoping I can squeak by this summer by adding a lot of chlorine frequently. Can you advise if it is still safe to swim in this given the very high CYA level (I appreciate Pool Doc's response but just want to double check now that I have posted the CYA level)?

Any other advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks very, very much.

[Watermom]

How did you get a cya reading of 150? I don't think any of the testers differentiate anything higher than 100.

So, apparently it is at least 100? That is WAY HiGH for cya. If you can't afford to do a partial drain and refill, then you will have to run high chlorine levels to compensate for the high cya. Take a look at this chart:

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

This means that you will have to be diligent about keeping your chlorine level between 8-15 ALL the time or you will risk an algae bloom. Also, in the event that you do need to shock the pool, you will have to take it up to 25ppm. Actually, since the chlorine level has dropped to 0, there is a good chance that you have something brewing in your water and just can't see it yet. I would suggest going ahead and shocking this pool to 25. If you test in the evening and don't lose more than 1ppm of cl from sundown to sunup, then you are ok. But, if you do lose more than that, shock it up again.

If you decide not to do a partial drain and refill, you will have to have a good test kit to be able to test the high cl levels you'll have to keep in your pool.

[danville]

Yes our testing kit only goes to 100 CYA, but the pool tech we consulted had a kit that went higher and he was the one he told us it was 150.

Sounds like we should go ahead and drain the pool. The pool is an inground concrete pool about 10 years old in a warm California climate. We are novices as this is our first pool - any advice on how to best drain the pool? Anything we need to look out for to avoid damaging the pool? Should we use a pressure washer once the pool is drained?

Thanks for all your help.

[Watermom]

In a dry area, you most likely have a low water table which is good when it comes to draining pools. You shouldn't have any problems. I assume you have a bottom drain. Not sure about the pressure washer. I'm gonna let someone else answer that part of your question for you. Probably ok as long as not the highest pressure but see who else chimes in on that.

[polyvue]

Yes our testing kit only goes to 100 CYA, but the pool tech we consulted had a kit that went higher and he was the one he told us it was 150.

Sounds like we should go ahead and drain the pool. The pool is an inground concrete pool about 10 years old in a warm California climate. We are novices as this is our first pool - any advice on how to best drain the pool? Anything we need to look out for to avoid damaging the pool? Should we use a pressure washer once the pool is drained?
Unless, as Watermom said, you have a high water table, or it's rained heavily in recent weeks (it's certainly dry enough to drain a pool where I am, in Sacramento) it shouldn't be a problem.

You don't have to have a bottom drain if you're willing to rent or buy a light weight sump* pump (less than $90 at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) If you have a pool equipment controller or pump timer, be sure these are in service mode or turned off. I wouldn't recommend leaving the pool in a drained state for more than a few days, just start filling right away -- multiple hoses will speed the process.

Not sure what power-washing would do for your pool -- other than risk plaster damage. If you have a mild algae condition, spend a few minutes on the algae stains with bleach and a bristle brush, then fill it up. Maintaining a higher-than-usual chlorine level and brushing once a day will eventually work to remove staining deposited by algae growth.

EDIT * I meant a submersible pump, not necessarily a sump pump. END-EDIT

[CarlD]

My problem with used sump pumps is where they were used! :eek: Talk about a chlorine demand! (thankfully, chlorine will ensure a sanitary aftermath.)

[danville]

We do have a bottom drain. May be a silly question but how do I drain the pool from that (as you can see I am a newbie)? Would I just connect a hose to the pump somewhere? Given that I don't really know what I am doing and this will be a little trial and error, is there any equipment I could likely mess up by playing around to figure this out?

Many thanks.

[Watermom]

If you have a bottom drain shouldn't it be plumbed and drain out the plumbing pipes with the other used water in your house? I can't imagine having a bottom drain and that not being the case.

[polyvue]

My problem with used sump pumps is where they were used!
I misspoke... meant to suggest a submersible pump Here's one (http://www.amazon.com/Superior-Pump-91250-Thermoplastic-Submersible/dp/B000X05G1A/) that would probably work. It's similar to the one I use to drain my pool. Wouldn't want to rent an actual sump pump for the reason Carl elucidated.


We do have a bottom drain. May be a silly question but how do I drain the pool from that (as you can see I am a newbie)? Would I just connect a hose to the pump somewhere? Given that I don't really know what I am doing and this will be a little trial and error, is there any equipment I could likely mess up by playing around to figure this out?
Look for a hose connection in your PVC pipe. On my equipment pad, there's a hose bib that can be used to partially drain with the pool pump. If you do a partial drain this way be sure to divert 100% suction to the main drain (normally via a Jandy valve plumbed between the pool and the main pump). If you don't have the ability to divert suction or the pump loses prime during this operation, perform the drain with a submersible pump.

So long as you don't run your pool pump dry (for more than few seconds) or direct pumped water through a neighbor's (or your) living room there isn't much to mess up.


If you have a bottom drain shouldn't it be plumbed and drain out the plumbing pipes with the other used water in your house? I can't imagine having a bottom drain and that not being the case
Is that how they're plumbed in the East? Not here. Main drains are often connected at the skimmer; better configurations feature one or more separate home runs to the equipment area (pump shack). So they are part of the circulation system of the pool and aren't a real drain in the sense of having a sewer connection.

[Watermom]

I have no idea how they're plumbed in the east, north, south, west or anywhere in between. Plumbing is definitely not my department! :rolleyes: Bad assumption on my part.

[waterbear]

Draining a pool is really easy if you have a main drain! Turn off your skimmers and open the drain plug on your filter or set the multiport to waste. Turn on the pump. You will empty the pool in no time!